killing buffs

[TequilaChaser]

tater,
had a successful 4 kill sortie of B-24's  in a P51b the other night,  only took a few bullet holes , no control or any other type of damage.  was Repoman, betty and a bunch of other B-24's heading S.

I used what Mars & Zazen described, diving/slashing attacks from steep angles off the 9 or 3 oclock high side aiming for the front portion of the cockpit or at a wing-root.......

was fun til ammo ran out.......


as for ya ?'s,  well I say the 109 with the 30mm or  the P38 or Jugs with 8 50's

as to who is best, well I really wouldn't have a clue........

[MajWoody]

TC,

 What about a chog? It seems like they would be great buff shredders.

[Krusty]

Two of ya added P38 to my list. Okay I have to agree it's GOOD for it, due to nose mounted guns. Once the 20mm runs dry, though, you lose half your firepower. While I have popped bombers easily with the nose guns on a 38, I will not put it in the "best" category, but it is a good one.

[gatt]

Did any1 mention the K-4?

[999000]

Don't know what I can add been killed by everyone with everything..including trees and mountains!..Betty says my name..I dead ..any of the UNFORGIVEN look my way my B17 immediatly burst into flames!    Ak's take my cookies my formation explodes!..but it all doesn't matter..what matters is I"m a MEMBER OF THE SHEGOTYA FAN CLUB!...so everything is good!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously I agree the  "shawk" attack dropping like a rock is best!!!..tough to even get a few hits on this kind of attack!   I disagre with the HO on a buff don't mind that attack at all unless it again is a high 12 attack..that tough again.
One thing not talked about is a coordinated attack by two or more fighters ..this again is very tough..and to survive takes good SA, luck ,and ability to hit a fighter on the way out from the bomber attack
999000

[tatertot]

i agree 999000,as in fighters i suppose the ability to judge were the attack will come from is a major key to sucess.if you  can judge or forsee the approach a attack will come from is key.also 2 attackers at once is very hard t o defend  when 2 squad mates its even worse.As far as shawks stlye i dont even shoot untill the angle is in my sights it is worthless usualy has to much speed  to get enough hits to kill.

\btw i still say hitech has given 999000 guided 50 calls every other round:D

[mipoikel]

We practised this A LOT for Ruhr scenario.

The best attack was high 2 a clock, high speed and aiming cockpit or wingtips. Wingtips were best because all bombers were B17's.

My squadron flew 109's with only 1 30mm gun and we did quite well if I remember right.. Now I would take 3x 20mm's because 30mm has lost its power....

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by tatertot
ok after extensive research  you guys tell me what is 1)the best buff killer 2) THE BEST ANGLES 3) and who does this the best and why????

then ill tell you what i have learned from spending to much time in the dam laser taggers:D

well to be honest, the attack is different for every bomber.

the most important thing is to know thy enemy. if you even have a fleeting thought it is 999000 or tatertot you must change your attack.

usually though you need to feel out the bomber, see if he is watching, see if he knows what he is doing, all that. depending on what i find out, i may just zoom through in the rear quarter for the first attack, but be as fast as possible, not even shooting.

one thing you can do is tell if the gunner can even follow you, the other is see if he can aim.

now i DO NOT recommend this with most bombers, it is just something i have done in the past. this "zoom through" not only feels out the enemy, but sets up the next attack.

as i pass though i start a medium G pull up (3-4G's) watching out the rear of the plane the whole time. i do a 1/4 roll, and start a gentel turn to the right or left (depending on where i came in from) if i came in from high left i usually exit high right.

this should put you in the about 2 oclock, and about D2.0k above slightly in front of the bomber formation. i do not reverse until a minium of ICON range 2.0k or further away from the bomber.

if you do this right you should be slow, and 3/4 inverted looking at the formation.

with a quick rudder snap stall you can change direction right at the bomber without him seeing clearly the attitude change (unless he has a great video card and is zoomed in on you 100%)

from that point i do a wepped dive at the nose of the lead bomber. i keep the bomber just in the sight until about D800 then pull the nose so the bomber is just below the cowl, and fire fire fire. (you usually end up comming in from about 4 oclock but almost directly above the bombers)

after about 1/2 second of firing pull up like before only to the other side this time.

if you aimed this right and dove in correctly you should have at minium killed the top turret on the lead, wounded or killed the pilot (lead bomber dead) or done serious damage to the forward wing root.

you wont have the E to get as high as before so extend more in the horizontal keeping speed and as much E as possible.

i usually go into a slow climb banking so i see the bomber out my look back right. once the bomber is off your 3 tighten the turn, comming in from high 11 of the bomber.

as he see's you comming break off the attack @ D1.2 pulling up to your left and you should be able to reset to the first attack position.

doing the "fakey" attack made him waste some ammo, and helped you see how trained of an eye on you he has.


all this i used to do in the 190D so different planes need different tactics but thats just 1 simple idea of how i went about killing 999000 all those times

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by 999000
and ability to hit a fighter on the way out from the bomber attack
999000

if you remember... most of the times you damaged me was on the outbound of a slash attack (which always pissed me off something fierce ROFL)

very very few bomber gunners can do that, and i partially rely on that in some of my attacks

<> bros 999000 / King of the Potato snacks!

[tatertot]

im gonna print out that attack senerio mustaine if you dont mind id like to try it on 999 in the da

[tatertot]

depending on the buff 999 is way better at hitting fighters on the out ,i on the other hand can do it better  in the side guns nothing like pinging a guy and watching him jerk to the right freaking out lol

[tatertot]

o and another thing to consider a good buff gunner can jump gun to gun and hit at every angle ino ino it is a defanite disadvantage to you fighter guys imo but isnt that how to play the scenerio out no what your plane/buff/gv is designed or can or cannot do ???

[StarOfAfrica2]

I set my run up much like what Mustaine describes, but I use a couple variations depending on how tough I think they are going to be.  I usually am in a F4U-1, so I've had to learn to make the most of my .50s.  My aim is a bit off recently due to so much rust, but I'm getting back into the groove.

If I'm not overly concerned by the gunnery skills of the buff pilot, I take up a 2 o'clock position above and slightly behind the formation, around 2k to 3k out.  I make a slow aileron roll over and keep the nose where I can just see the front of the lead bomber, WEP on and then at 1000 yards I nose down under the bomber, fishtail a bit to throw off any guns, and aim for the engines.  B24s are the easiest, they burst into flames right off.  B17s and B26s will smoke, but take some work to get flames.  I keep pouring the fire into the engines until I'm about to ram them, then kick the rudders over hard and roll under them, pulling up in front of the formation and climbing back up to about 2k above the formation where I set up a recurring loop attack until the bombers change direction or I run out of E.  Once I have flames on one bomber, I can sit back and wait for it to go BOOM on its own before starting on the next one.  Let the fire do the hard work for me.  

If I had to fight to even get into an attack position, I try to be a bit more wary of the pilot.  I'll set up at least 3k out and use the "zoom through", targeting the cockpit area and the engines of the lead buff and then getting some distance to judge response.  Again, I'm trying for just enough damage to either make the plane difficult to fly or make it go BOOM all on its own.  I'll usually alternate sides I attack from if the gunnery skills seem above average, and use rudder alot to throw off my direction a bit as I come in.

Easiest bombers to kill have to be Lancs.  Next would be B24s.  Hardest to kill would be either the B17 or the B26.  I hate attacking those things.  Most of all though, I hate attacking Ju88s.  Not because they are so tough really, or that the guns are so great, because they have big blind spots.  It just seems like the guys I run into that fly them are good gunners that know how to make the most of their ride, and I never make it out of an encounter with them 100% unscratched.

[icemaw]

First and most important find out where 999000 and tatertot are and dont fly in that area. Attack from high angles aim for wing root out cockpit.
Never ever aproach from dead 6!

[bj229r]

Originally posted by Lan784
Ok i fly buffs in AH as a career...check the sig why.


The best buff killer is the 109G-14 cause of its cannons and also speed to get in front of the bomber quickly to set up his attack. Also 110s,N1K,262s,163s, and La5s and 7s.

The best angle is from the front upper left or right corners of the bomber. Aim for the wings. Also aonther good attack is from the side., its a good way to get all 3 bombers in 1 pass.NEVER EVER ATTACK FROM THE 6!!! U WILL DIE!!thats how i kill 262s so much


The best pilot is the smartess there is no better pilot than anyone else that can do this better.The smart ones will follow these tatics and not get killed. Paticence is a VERY KEY FACTOR!!. Look guys to whom are impatcient, those bombers AINT GOIN ANY WHERE!! take ur time and u will not die and they will.

Lan my little girl is ALSO a 15 year old self-professed band geek! (and stay the hell away from her! Im not afraid of goin back to prison!)

Back to the bomber thing--I Remember Crow attacked my B24's with his putrid F6 a few months ago..I was 20k or so, he dove on me 3X, totally erased a bomber on each pass, unreal, I had no chance at all..I MIGHT have made him spill his coffee:eek: