I might be heartless...

[nirvana]

Apparently two young men from my high school were killed in a car accident this week.  Realizing i didn't know them, and that all my my mates from school were making their death a media circus, similar to if some rock star died (think Kurt Cobain or 9/11 "remembrance" with candle light vigils and such bad reference, I know).  I am probably one of the most heartless little bastards there are.  I feel the need to say this, my supervisor committed suicide last Monday.  His funeral services are tomorrow.  These 15 year olds are trying to convince me that 2 guys I don't even know matter more then life itself.  They would die to have them back.  Well how many people die in this country alone each day?  How about worldwide?    They are whoring these guys like they are celebrities that died in a car accident.  

For what it's worth, i've been told my supervisor committed suicide, I had to tell my sister her boss committed suicide, my parents were divorced when I was 7, i've seen death, i've grown up in a time of almost constant war, could i still be sensitive to things like this?

I know many of you have gone through worse things, families members dying of cancer, family members lost in the tsunami, family members committing suicide and the list goes on.


My question to all of you, am I such a heartless person that I am thinking about my supervisor that I actually knew, rather then 2 guys I didn't even know?  I send good vibes to the people but damn, they are doing  a candle light vigil and everyone is supposed to dress up on Monday in remembrance.  I am sincerely sickened and disgusted.

[Octavius]

I think you already have the answer even before starting this thread.  Heartless?  I'd laugh at whoever tossed that label at you.  You dont lack intelligence, fire back with whatever you deem necessary.   Better yet, go balls out and lead the charge with candlelight vigils every night for a month, and let the heathens and other heartless bastards that fail to show their devotion fry in hell.  They want a vigil and remembrance day?  Dont let the ****ers forget it, remind them once a month, once a week, once a DAY.

[nirvana]

I deemed it necesary to send a big **** YOU to all the peoplethat turned it into a joke.  This all occured on myspace.com, which, if you haven't heard, is t3h uber kewl for us teenie boppers.  People post bulletins for all their friends to see, and by the time I saw the 20th one I was flat out damn sickened so I wrote a counter bulletin.  I told them that they wouldn't care if any other kid died that wasn't popular, i told them that if some kid was strangled and strung up in the hall way they wouldn't think twice about it if they didn't know him.  It's all a popularity contest.  Who can be the first of the 1,000+ people to say "Oh my "friends" died over break" and that is what really makes my stomach turn inside out.  They make someones death a gathering point or illiteracy.  In a "memorial" video that was posted they used internet type in it.  Internet type= illiterate to me.  Thingslike "Frenz 4 life" make me wonder how these people even passed 4th grade and how that is supposed to be sincere.  If it's gotta be sarcasm and Igotta have a candle light vigil every mother fricking Saturday, then Imight just have to do it.  I enjoy pissing people off by saying "Tookie should have died 3 times for killing 3 people" rather then reposting the same stupid bulletin that says he should have lived.  I enjoy getting a reaction out of people.  And if they want to become a reactionary then bring it on.

[Octavius]

Enjoy it while you can, but dont let it bother you too much.  Many insults will transform into insult grenades; your targets wont realize they've been hit til much time has passed and their comprehension reaches your present level.

I think you'll get to the point where educating the retards isnt worth your time and effort.  You'd love nothing more than to have just handful of your peers understand your perspective.  Rarely is it productive to spend the energy on smaller, ignorant targets.  Much larger fish await frying in the future, so don't lower yourself to their level in mean time.  Find humor in much of it, it'll help in the long run.  Bitterness kills a lot of opportunities.

[nirvana]

It's hard to have fun while people are trying to mourn.  Think of it as an extremely nasty troll.  Think your uncle, not really your favorite, buys you sweaters for Cristmas, itchy sweaters, and he has cancer.  Now you've never really met him, he's patted your head once or twice at the family reunion, that's all though.  Then imagine the cancer kills him.  It hurts a bit, it is family after all, but did you really know him?  Now imagine that uncle, but you've never even met him, he's never given you anything.  He dies of cancer.  Does it matter?  Does it hurt?  Probably not one bit.  The latter is how I feel, the former is how a lot of my mates are feeling I think.  It stings as if you got hit by a paintball, but it's nothing serious and you can move on.  

Now imagine me walking along at the funeral saying,"people die of cancer every day, so what?"  Does that piss you off?  Or does it not even matter?  I'll condescend to them, some girl tried to pick a fight with me ON THE INTERNET.  I took a step back, laughed, and when on my way.  Just yesterday me and Gunslinger had a nice conversation here in the o'club, however, we conducted ourselves as gentlemen.......for the most part;)  When people start saying they want to kick my bellybutton because of a comment on the internet, well, Ithink it's time for a little therapy.....  I can understand they are a little on edge but damn, I can really fire those people up.

[Octavius]

Others reaction to what you say, be it mono e mono or on the internet, is their problem, their reaction, so long as your comments do not affect their business (keep it 3rd person).  You don't sprinkle magic anger dust on them, they react.  

As to your analogy, it isnt far from events that have occured in my life not too long ago.  I had found my uncle several days into a diabetic coma at his apartment.  He was a great guy, I felt I knew him, but not on a level which would prompt me to hold a vigil.  I deal with things my own way, and I did not cry at his funeral.  This is probably because virtually all of my memories of this man fell into my definition of 'good,' and i celebrated his life and recalled mostly good memories.  I had heard some bad qualities, but I dismissed them as merely plausible because I had not personally observed them.

My sarcasm and deliberate jabs at overt and fake gestures are merely my harsh way of attempting to allow others to gain perspective other than what is expected.  My reaction has no effect on my targets mourning process, be it heartfelt or fake; they may react however they want.  If they react hostile, most likely this is a reflection of anger at your calling their bluff.  Should you choose not to react and deal with the situation in your own private way, and your targets react with hostility, you are within every right to defend yourself and make them the biggest fool possible.

[Wolfala]

Friend of mine was murdered in the Bronx 2 weeks ago. Grew up with her from middle school. Found her daughter alive though - wasn't any big media blitz over the ordeal. Classmates and I had a service tonight in Westport CT - no body of course since its still an open investigation.

Its a matter of maturity Nirvana - you've been been through more **** then the rest.

S.

Wolf

[Golfer]

Originally posted by nirvana
I enjoy getting a reaction out of people.  And if they want to become a reactionary then bring it on.

That is a lousy reason to do anything.  The tale of a couple teenagers dying in a car accident is tragic but sadly not uncommon for many.

Have a discussion, or if you know you're going to disagree beforehand it's best to just avoid the conversation anyway.  Don't say something just to get a reaction because you're actually worse then them at that point doing something that will knowingly trigger an unpleasant emotion.

When I was in high school we had a student die of cancer, several were killed in automotive accidents and 2 suicides as I recall in the 4 years I was there.

Each time a tragedy happened the staff and administration would gather us in the auditorium for a period of time one afternoon and people who knew the people would say what they remembered about the person.  It didn't matter if they wern't part of your "group" race or niche...you sat and went through it.

It's not something I was happy to attend, and the students understood.  When a high school kid dies...it's big news.  It's not supposed to happen.  Unfortunately...I knew the 15 year old girl taken by cancer and a couple of the kids killed in auto accidents.

Nirvana you do seem mature and I wasn't there to see it...but if the kids who died typed phrases like "Frenz 4 life" and the like, then those who produced the video (and very likely...knew them) then I'm sure it was anything but a joke.

I've watched my fair share of memorial videos just in high school, and I've even contributed photos and memories to a few.  I can promise you that at no point was the point of them to be sarcastic, a joke or to make fun of the person that died.

If they knew them, or didn't know them and want to remember them because they are in fact part of their class and members of their school then let them mourn.  Let them celebrate that persons life and don't stand in their way.

I can assure you if you walked into the funeral of a very good friend of mine and said even one word bad about her or the people remembering her I wouldn't have had any sympathy toward what I would do to you once out of eyesight and earshot of the pepople there.  Be happy it happened on myspace because if you say the wrong thing to the wrong person when emotions are running high...I wouldn't try to hold them responsible for what they do to you.


If nobody else does I will say based on what you wrote and what most likely happened that you were out of line and acted only the way you did because you didn't know them.  You'd sing a different tune if you did, just like you do with your supervisor.  On the grounds of my school there are several memorials and a number of scholarships set up in the names of thsoe who have died.  If you tried to say that those are a joke and we don't really care...you've got another thing coming.

[Octavius]

That's a big assumption Golfer.  The same action can be rationalized from any perspective on the whole.  Nirvana saw it as a joke and most likely others did too.  Because he's the one to call out the clowns of the circus he's in the wrong?  I am partial to this version cos I've seen variations of it time to time... clowns calling out the audience for their lack of support is equal bull****.  Does it come down to who fired first?  Lacking omnipotent powers, I digress.

In any case, so long as one's way has no effect on anyone else's way of dealing with ****, then it should be acceptable.

[Golfer]

If he's only trying to trigger an emotional reaction...he's the thorn in the side that he's saying they are.  That certainly fits the definition of having an effect on someones way of dealing with ****

[Octavius]

I'm saying he's on the defensive.  Or they're on the defensive... we dont know.  Whoever shot first is the salamander.

Either way, both sides shouldnt **** with the other and all will be well.  

Furthermore, the kids shouldnt be pulled out of class to remember some student elevated to honored status merely because they cease to have a pulse.  But thats just me... in another discussion altogether.

[Golfer]

Furthermore, the kids shouldnt be pulled out of class to remember some student elevated to honored status merely because they cease to have a pulse.

I didn't and now don't think it was a bad idea for the students to get together and have a short 30 minute service to remember one of their classmates.  Not just classmates, but they were students of the teachers as well.  If we couldn't give up 30-60minutes to talk openly about and listen to those that knew the kids so we could understand who they were instead of just a name then maybe we're all too selfish.

And also...I don't know what they call it now (something gay..."Connections" I think) but when I was there our 10th period "class" was just homeroom for studyhall, B.S. and card games.

[nirvana]

Originally posted by Octavius
Furthermore, the kids shouldnt be pulled out of class to remember some student elevated to honored status merely because they cease to have a pulse.  But thats just me... in another discussion altogether.

I'd concur with that.  That's mere bull**** to me.  People have different ways of dealing with things, humour is one of mine.  I'm no funny guy but i've learned that listening to sad depressing music does nothing.  Hell i'll follow what Octavius says and i'll attend the candle light vigil.  I've gone sarcastic and said i'd write a petition to get the school renamed (right like that will happen).  That's the point where any sane person SHOULD say "is he serious?" but I guess in a time of mourning everything is believable?  

I think that using what is a seemingly lack of scoial skills to create a memorial is disrespectful in my opinion, i'm  not saying they were doing it as a joke, i'm sure they meant it to truly be taken seriously, I just couldn't take it seriously.  I've told my friend that anything i've gone through I don't ask for people to go out of their way to feel sad or sympathetic for me.  Where does that go? No where, I tell them to move on and get past it.  Wallowing in the past is a waste of time.  What i'm seeing is people posting chain letters, of the same stuff all the time about it.  I know they want to express their distress and angst, but is a website full of teens with little to no life experience, myself included, a place to do it?  I've told them to talk to the families, or write a card, or something, just stop whining about how you miss them.  Crying gets you no where in life so what's the point.  I'm also an overly sarcastic person which in this instance may get me in trouble, or put false hopes in peoples minds.  I'll write up one of those online petitions to get our school name changed and tell them about it to see how gullible they are.  Would that be mean?  School counselors have said the school averages about 1 suicide per year, and no one *****es and cries about them, not that I know of anyway.  

Would it be wrong for the school to hold a moment of silence for the boys?  It's tragic, it really is for a teen to die before he or she graduates but sadly it happens.  It happens, it's life, we can go on with our lives.  You have to keep a positive attitude about them.  One of the young men died from internal bleeding during surgery, he is no longer suffering.  The other died from brain damage, his family decided to take him off life support.  Like I told one of my friends, do you want to see him laying there, brain dead on life support?  It's not living, with all respect, he probably wouldn't even recognize his own family.

Oh and Octavius didn't know about your uncle, thought about your mom, your dad, grandmother, aunt...uncle just seemed like it would do, no disrespect intended.

Thanks for the comments guys.  And hopefully they find the body Wolfala, sad story, sorry to hear it.

You see, I can be sorry for people i've never met.  It's when people start making a big ruckus about it that it starts to irritate me and get on my nerves.

[midnight Target]

Black and white
I defined these terms
quite clear no doubt somehow
Ah but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.

Dylan

[nirvana]

Are you trying to say my maturity level has gone down ten fold by responding to the people that mourn Midnight Target?  If so you are probably correct, it was a very immature thing to express my opinion, and then continue to talk to the people.  It was pure instigation.  And I wasn't being sarcastic.  I believe part of growing up is learning to part with people who you were friends with, it's tough, but it needs to be.  You can't wallow in the past.