Author Topic: Axis fighter kills  (Read 431 times)

Offline LYNX

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Axis fighter kills
« on: January 15, 2006, 07:30:05 PM »
Was wondering about the 190D really.  Anyone know how many victories it scored and what types of aircraft.

I assume it was a bomber killer.  Can anyone put me right on the 190D or indeed any other axis planes / victories / types.

Just mindlessly intregued.

Offline Bruno

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Axis fighter kills
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2006, 08:43:43 PM »
It wasn't a bomber killer, the A-8s and A-9s filled that roll.

The D-9 flew many different rolls from fighter covering the 'bomber killers' to Jabo etc...

Offline Treize69

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Axis fighter kills
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2006, 09:16:28 PM »
I remember reading in that JG26 book (THE JG26 book, the one that weighs more than some small cars...) that they felt the 190D9 was the best fighter they had for going up against the American P-51 and P-38.

There was one Dora pilot, whose name eludes me, who seemed to have a one-man war against the Lightnings in the fall/winter of 1944.
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Offline Loddar

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ROFL
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2006, 03:45:23 AM »
One man war vs. 51s and 38s  ??? :(

I think, this guy never faced our uberflyers here in AH. I NEVER can
hold against 38s and 51s in a Dora here. 51s outrun and 38s outturn
me easy in Dora.

Best 190 ? a joke :mad:

Offline bozon

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Re: ROFL
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2006, 04:01:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Loddar
I think, this guy never faced our uberflyers here in AH. I NEVER can
hold against 38s and 51s in a Dora here. 51s outrun and 38s outturn
me easy in Dora.

Must be a conspiracy then.

Bozon
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Offline KD303

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Re: Re: ROFL
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2006, 06:31:20 AM »
To find out how many allied aircraft were shot down by Doras, you'd really have to add together the indivdual scores of each pilot who flew them and work out how many he got in the Dora. Probably a difficult thing to do.

As a previous poster mentioned, other 190 models were adapted for dealing with bombers, as were entire groups and tactics. These "Stormgroups" used heavily armoured 190A8s (Sturmbock) with a lot of fire power. They had orders to approach the bomber formations from behind, line abreast and not to open fire until very close. These aircraft carried over two hundred pounds of extra armour, including extra bullet proofing on the canopy. They were supposed to ram the bombers once their ammunition was expended...
In this configuration, the 190 was no match for the escort fighters. The Luftwaffe used mainly 109Gs to try and tempt away the escorting fighters. If you were wondering why the 190 jumped from the Anton to the Dora, the reason was that the B and C versions, though made and flown, never reached the production stage. They were both inline versions, like the Dora, conceived for high altitude performance. The Radial engine used in the A series (BMW 801) wasn't so good at high altitudes and a solution was sought in inline engines. This resulted in the "B" variant which used the DB 603 as well as some experiments with nitrous boosted radials(!). The project was abandoned and supplanted by the "C" which was basically an improvement on the "B" with inline engine. Six were built in various configurations. Things finally came together with the Dora. Fitted with the Jumo 213 and based on the A7 airframe with a stretch, the 190D prototype went into pre-production, then production as the 190D9 with changes made in the fin design, canopy and the addition of 13mm guns in the cowling. This is the model we all know and love (well maybe not all of us).
I may well have got some of this slightly wrong, as it's mainly from memory of what I've read and studied but in general it should give an idea of the difference between the Anton and the Dora.
KD

Offline Crumpp

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Axis fighter kills
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2006, 08:30:04 PM »
Quote
Anton and the Dora.


The Anton, Dora, and the Bf-109 were Air Superiority fighters and all were adapted to the situation to become interceptors.  

The Dora was a newer design and the replacement for the Anton.

Some FW-190A's mounting the R6/R7/R8 kits were dedicated bomber interceptors.  Same with Bf-109's when equipped with Gondolawaffen or rockets.  Both FW-190's and Bf-109's also flew cover as well.

In General, the Bf-109 in clean configuration, performed better at higher altitudes than the FW-190 just as the FW-190 outperformed the Bf-109 at lower altitudes.

The crux the Bf-109 faced in dealing with bombers was it's lack of firepower.  The achilles heel of the BMW801 was performance above 23000 ft and 23000-25000 feet was the altitude of the majority of the USAAF bombers.

All the best,

Crumpp