Rivets that don't meet spec.

[Jimdandy]

I heard a very interesting rumor. There was a batch of rivets that went out to the airplane manufactures that were not aircraft quality. It effects any plane that these were used in. I have no cold facts on this.  It would seem to be a major deal if it did happen. I heard they didn't catch it tell after the fact. Thus several plane were built with these buy different manufactures. Can anyone confirm this. LOL would anyone want to if they could.  

[Jigster]

I know that back in the late '50s, there was an enormous problem with the F-86's ailerons locking into a roll at a certain speed and g-load near the ground. It took the USAF a while to find it, but I believe C. Yeager was in the group that found it out...one of the assembly line workings in the North American plant was ignoring a diagram on how to insert a bolt in the aileron. He had worked on the same line during P-51 production, and he thought he knew better and installed it the same way as it went on the 51's ailerons.

I believe that lone worker was responsible for at least a dozen deaths, many ejections, and hundreds of close calls.

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33rd FW www.33rd.org

[Tac]

Yes I read about that one. The worker was actually placing the bolt upside down on the planes.

3 test pilots got killed when the airplane lost control when they were testing accidents related to loss of control during high speed dives/rolls. The worker was never told this nor fired, he was just told to put the bolts the other way (how it was supposed to be)

[Pepino]

They should ask duma first. All of them exceed specs  

[funked]

There are plenty of parts on airplanes that are out of spec.  There are millions of parts and dozens of specs for each part.  If they inspected every single spec on every single part, you wouldn't be flying an airliner, you'd be flying the space shuttle.  

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by Jigster:
I know that back in the late '50s, there was an enormous problem with the F-86's ailerons locking into a roll at a certain speed and g-load near the ground. It took the USAF a while to find it, but I believe C. Yeager was in the group that found it out...one of the assembly line workings in the North American plant was ignoring a diagram on how to insert a bolt in the aileron. He had worked on the same line during P-51 production, and he thought he knew better and installed it the same way as it went on the 51's ailerons.

I believe that lone worker was responsible for at least a dozen deaths, many ejections, and hundreds of close calls.

Yes I read Yeagers book Press On. He said that they never told the worker what the consequences of his actions were. They just made sure he didn't do it again. They felt that there was no point in it. That was a very different time in the US.

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by funked:
There are plenty of parts on airplanes that are out of spec.  There are millions of parts and dozens of specs for each part.  If they inspected every single spec on every single part, you wouldn't be flying an airliner, you'd be flying the space shuttle.    

Yes. There might be a little difference though between a scattered group of parts in different systems not being to spec and a whole wing riveted with inferior rivets. A very big difference.  

[AKDejaVu]

Dammit!  I thought you guys were giving Duma a hard time!  I was ready to get midievil

AKDejaVu

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Dammit!  I thought you guys were giving Duma a hard time!  I was ready to get midievil  

AKDejaVu

No just fishing for info.  

[AKDejaVu]

All of the Rivets talk reminds me of the time a sheet-metal troop was out of aluminum rivets in his kit when repairing a loose rivet in a fuel cell.  He used another rivet from his kit that was the same size.  Unfortunately it was made of steel and didn't react to the grinder as expected.  It is unknow if the airman had time to realize his mistake

AKDejaVu

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
All of the Rivets talk reminds me of the time a sheet-metal troop was out of aluminum rivets in his kit when repairing a loose rivet in a fuel cell.  He used another rivet from his kit that was the same size.  Unfortunately it was made of steel and didn't react to the grinder as expected.  It is unknow if the airman had time to realize his mistake  

AKDejaVu

Oooh. That reminders me of a welding safety film. This really smart guy got an "empty" acetylene bottle and was trying to take the valve out of it in the vice in his shop. It wasn't even a full size bottle. It was a little half size one. Well as you might know acetylene bottles are NEVER empty. It leveled (I do meen leveled) his shop and the 2 story farm house that set about 100yrds away looked like it had been attacked by a bunch of drunken duck hunters. The only thing left of the guy was from his waste down.

[av8or]

that reminds me of a Bell 412 in louisiana.it was equipt with a shid float system and it was time to do an inflation check where you blow the floats using a 2000 lb oxygen bottle but not the one in the ship.Anyhow the FAA/PMA approved bottle was removed and a test bottle screwed in.Everyone went to lunch and returned to do the test and the guys that installed the test bottle only got three threads engaged and the bottle was loose so when the cap was blown the bottle went through the helicopters cabin out the otherside through a wall through two snap-on tool boxes out a steel wall and nailed a pickup truck bed and spun around on the ground till it was empty.The lucky thing was the lead mechanic was leaning on the side of the helicopter where the bottle exited the aircraft just before the incident a junior mechanic asked him a question and he walked over to talk with him.Yes this is a true story and i saw the aftermath and all the tools in the driveway where the bottle exited the building.

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by funked:
There are plenty of parts on airplanes that are out of spec.  There are millions of parts and dozens of specs for each part.  If they inspected every single spec on every single part, you wouldn't be flying an airliner, you'd be flying the space shuttle.    

And then you better hope the fuel valves are to spec.

[Jimdandy]

   

Originally posted by Pongo:

And then you better hope the fuel valves are to spec.

Pongo, I think he's completely missed the point in the first place.     You really better hope it's ALL to spec. I really don't see how putting something together with the properly designed parts makes it 'better'? Doesn't that make it right? How would it make a Space Shuttle out of a 747 to have the part that it was designed for on it. Are we talking about inferior cup holders or hydraulic lines? "Damn that things like the Space Shuttle. Those hydraulic lines are to spec!"  "Yee Haaa Billy Bob your right! Down where we come from we would have repaired that with some old shoe leather and chewing gum. What the heck are they go'in to such finery for. Weeel Dogy's" COME ON!

"...Hey, it's all ball bearings these days!..." From the movie Fletch

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-16-2001).]

[funked]

Jimdandy I'm referring to the expense.  They could inspect every last spec on every last part of an airliner but the cost would be ridiculous.  That kind of thing is only done for aircraft where cost is no object, e.g. the Space Shuttle.