North Korea

[Dowding]

I never said anything about them wanting to stay in the Peace process. I agree that they probably were looking for an excuse.

I think its interesting how our American friends rightly or wrongly demonize ('commie rats', 'those bastards' etc etc) anyone of communist persuasion (or even left-wing for that matter).

What are your views on Cuba for instance?

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-08-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

Just my 2 cents worth, all gov'ts lie to the public, Communistic, Imperial, don't matter, lying means money, money means power.


My view on Cuba, or  any country that is communistic is such:

It's like my golf game, it works in theory, but not in practice.

[funked]

Oh I'm sorry, communism is good, so is totalitarian rule, execution without trial, invading neighboring countries, suppressing religion, etc.  Please forgive me Comrade Dowding.    

Read up a little on these commie bastards who have enslaved their people for the last 50 years: http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/1999_hrp_report/northkor.html

The only good thing about the Cuban commies is that their enslavement of and disregard for their people occurs on a smaller scale than Red China or North Korea.


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 09-08-2000).]

[Rebel]

Dowding.  We don't demonize them.  They demonize themselves.

This kind of issue can get me slightly hot, so I will try to explain my view on Cuba calmly.

I don't like Cuba.  Let's start off with that.  They imprison their people to a society who's economy is crumbling, and give them no way out other then by life raft.  If you're caught, you're shot.  

Now let's take a look at the story with that kid.  The father came to the USA (with orders from Castro to get his son back so he could have a poster child).

After MILLIONS of dollars were spent on behalf of that brat, and that amazinhunk, he finally got his kid (which is the way it should have been in the first place).  How does he repay us?

He flips America the bird before he turns to board the plane, and has his son to the same thing.  

They shoulda put C4 on that plane and blew it to kingdom come when he did that.  

Ever seen the movie "Red Corner"?  A journalist is falsely accused of a crime, sentenced to death, and his family billed the cost of the bullet.

Communism isn't free in any way shape or form.  

------------------
-Rebel
JG2 "Richtofen"
"You Rebel Scum"

[Boroda]

Funked, believe me: what you have been told about life in "communist" countries is far from truth.

After a recent discussion on AGW I reread "The hunt for the Red October". LOL! And it is definetly not the worst book about USSR!  

Ripsnort, well said except that money doesn't mean power in such countries. Lying leads directly to power there.

------------------
With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

[blur]

 

Originally posted by Rebel:

<snip>
After MILLIONS of dollars were spent on behalf of that brat, and that amazinhunk, he finally got his kid (which is the way it should have been in the first place).  How does he repay us?

He flips America the bird before he turns to board the plane, and has his son to the same thing.  

They shoulda put C4 on that plane and blew it to kingdom come when he did that.  
<snip>

LOL, I wonder where people ever get the crazy notion to flip this country the bird.  

[Ripsnort]

Maybe it was the Hawaiin "Good Luck" symbolic finger?  

[funked]

Boroda, a lot of what I know about communist countries comes from close friends who are former citizens of the USSR and PRC.

I'm sure communism is real nice though.  So nice that your people overthrew their government to escape it, then outlawed the party, and so nice that thousands of Chinese are willing to die gasping in a cargo container to escape it, and thousands of Cubans are willing to die at sea to escape it.

[Ping]

I had a real big schpeel to rhyme off, but in the end I decide "politics SUCK" would be enough.

[Dowding]

The 'crumbling' state of Cuba might have something to do with the embargo placed on the country by the United States. I don't think you can simply blame the plight of the cuban people on the system they operate there, whatever its faults.

I can understand why there is hostility from Americans towards Cuba, viz the Cuban Missile Crisis - but why keep up the hostility towards an isolated backward nation? America has so much to offer Cuba.

This also has similarities with the plight of the Iraqi people and that country's treatment at the hands of the international community. Again, why refuse the country much needed humanitarian aid - since when can medical supplies be used a weapon of mass destruction? Of course, I believe there should still be the weapons inspections.

BTW Funked - I am in no way a communist.  Socialist? Yes, and proud of it too. Check out my thread on communism.

BTW - Cuba libre.
(Lights fuse and retires to a safe distance.)

[Boroda]

Funked, where did I say that I think "communism" is good?  

I just want to say that people are people everywhere, and they can have fun of almost any conditions.

And more to say:

In Middle-Asian republics the wedding age is 13. In the Ukraine (hehe, I'm half Ukrainian) it is 16. Is is a reason to bomb them to stone age?   I doubt it. Every nation has it's traditions. Different cultures.

So - please, don't judge.

"Among the many other worlds
There's probably the one
Where cat walks singing lullabies
Below the rising sun"

Sorry for a very bad translation of Vadim Shefner's short joke  

In Russian it sounds like this:

"Sred' mnozhestva inykh mirov
Naverno est' takoy
Gde kot idet s vyazankoy drov
Nad bezdnoyu morskoy!"

 

------------------
With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

[This message has been edited by Boroda (edited 09-10-2000).]

[funked]

Sorry Boroda I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.  I was aiming that comment at Dowding too.

How did we get on the topic of weddings?

[Rebel]

Dowding-

The US does have a lot to offer Cuba, that I cannot argue.

I guess I don't mind Cuban people, just one Cuban person.  That would be Fidel.  The guy's a maniac.

You shoulda heard my brother and I laugh when he said he was going to send in Commando's to pick up the kid.  We were rollin  

To put it straight-

Countries in Cuba's (and other countries like her) position is not a fault of the people, but of their leader.  Fidel put Cuba where it is now.  No one else (probably because they're all too scared of him to do anything about it).

------------------
-Rebel
JG2 "Richtofen"
"You Rebel Scum"

[Dowding]

I understand your position Rebel. But why keep up the embargo? We know from experience that this will not cause the people to rise up and replace the despot - especially if the tyrant has enjoyed that position for so long that the people don't know anything else.

Take Iraq, a generation is growing up which will resent the West, that has seen the poverty and despair of their parents and communities. Sure, Saddam has some responsibility for making the situation worse, but with no free press to challenge his word - he can just blame the situation on the Western powers.

I'm sure we don't need another enemy in the middle east.



[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-11-2000).]

[Tac]

Well Rebel, there are many points of view on that.

The US-Castro vendetta started when Castro confiscated US property IN Cuban land and was turned into state-owned stuff. If you read your history you will know the US almost virtually owned more than half of Cuba and were exploiting the sugar and tobbacco fields, taking all the wealth into the US and leaving nearly none for the Cuban economy. Dont argue with me on this, its on any non-biased history book. Go to your local library. The local Cuban government was for all purposes a US puppet, with all high officials receiving huge bonuses for their allowing the US to do all that.

So when the situation got strained to the breaking point and the people revolt and a dictator that kicks the US out is put in power, the US of course does not like it and so begins all this embargo and shtuff thats been going on all this time. And please remember Castro wasn't communist, he was forced to turn to the USSR just to keep the country alive and safe from US invasion.

I do not defend a dictator being in power, I do not like Castro or what he has done. But I do understand the instances that brought this to happen.

Let me also remind you of the words a North Korean leader (a prince I think it was) said after the US increased the embargo restrictions:

"Boycotting a nation only makes the people hungry. It doesn't make people revolt, it just makes them die".

Edited: Interestingly enough, after those restrictions (on heating oil and food I think it was) were put in place, the N. Koreans launched a missile over the US base in Japan... remember that? Well, what the news media did NOT say was that the restrictions were not only LIFTED, but "international aid" was increased tenfold after the N. Koreans agreed to limit their missile development programs. Man that took BALLS to do... I like that prince!  

You would think that after 50 years and 2 examples that boycotts and embargos dont work, the US wouldve learned that lesson. Seems they haven't. God knows how much suffering this policy has caused.

What was this thread about again?  


[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 09-11-2000).]