Author Topic: Airforce Police Officer Shot  (Read 3023 times)

Offline Squire

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Airforce Police Officer Shot
« Reply #120 on: February 07, 2006, 03:22:25 PM »
My post was more of a generalised response to some of the replies regarding use of force scenarios, do I know he wasnt armed? nope. I dont. In any case I guess the investigators will determine what happened.
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #121 on: February 07, 2006, 04:34:18 PM »
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Now, with the volume up extremely loud (as loud as a movie theater or better), I can hear the deputy saying "Don't get get! Don't get up!" The MP begins to stand and the deputy shoots him.


There is one point where I can hear the deputy say dont get up. Just prior to the MP saying Ok, I'm getting up isnt it. The deputy says it just before the MP says that he is an MP and is on the deputy's side. Just before the MP says Ok, I'm getting up, all I can hear is get up, get up, cant hear *dont* and in fact there doesnt appear to be enough time for the word *dont* to be inbetween them.

I too turned the volume way up (woke up one of my kids doing it). I also listened to the video with my eyes closed several times so I wouldnt be distracted by what I was seeing.

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oh well, stuff happens when you decide to endanger a cops life by driving like an a-hole THEN acting like one.


Except the shootee wasnt the driver. The shootee was a passenger. The driver didnt just endanger the cops life by driving like an idiot, he also endangered the life of his passenger and that of any residents that happened to be out and about that night also. Btw, the driver has yet to be charged with a crime as far as I can tell.

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"I'm an off duty 830 my weapon is in the car".... where was mr MPs professionalism?.. it would have kept him from being shot.


In the video the MP clearly attempts to ID himself as a AF LEO. From later reports the MP got out of the vehicle and approached the deputy attempting to ID himself. I concede that some of the things the MP said werent necessary (Like....look, I've served *expletive* longer than you have), that just wasnt necessary. Otoh it didnt warrant the officer shooting him for it either. It also doesnt constitute non-compliance either, at least imo ;)

Where was the deputy's professionalism? Telling suspects to stfu isnt exactly professional in my book. Also, why would the deputy tell the suspects *dont get up* when *stay down* would be more appropriate since it would be impossible to misinterpret.  (LEO's on glocktalk.com have brought this up and said it's part of their training in which commands to use and which NOT to use, negative commands ie commands with dont in them shouldnt be used, commands should be clear with no room for misinterpretation).

If the deputy fired because he perceived a weapon threat, why no move to secure a perceived threat after the shots were fired? If he suspected a weapon one would expect the officer to secure it for the safety of himself, the suspects and innocent bystanders. Instead the officer LOWERS his weapon and just stands there telling the suspects to stfu.

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We'll find out more as this tape will be analysed ad nauseum. I just hope someone posts the outcome so we all know for sure. I'd certainly like to know.


Ditto.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 04:36:22 PM by Elfie »
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #122 on: March 07, 2006, 03:49:37 PM »
Here is an update, the cop is getting charged with attempted manslaughter..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060307/ts_nm/crime_shooting_dc

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #123 on: March 07, 2006, 04:26:32 PM »
It would seem to be even worse than we 1st thought. This is the 1st time a cop in SB County has ever been charged with a crime for an on-duty shooting.

Offline ASTAC

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« Reply #124 on: March 07, 2006, 05:02:36 PM »
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Originally posted by midnight Target
It would seem to be even worse than we 1st thought. This is the 1st time a cop in SB County has ever been charged with a crime for an on-duty shooting.


Awww...too bad..I bet he'll be real popular in prison
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #125 on: March 07, 2006, 05:11:22 PM »
I don't get it.  How the hell can you have "attempted manslaughter"?


The cop attempted to kill him by accident?  WTF?  :huh

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #126 on: March 07, 2006, 05:37:39 PM »
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Originally posted by midnight Target
It would seem to be even worse than we 1st thought. This is the 1st time a cop in SB County has ever been charged with a crime for an on-duty shooting.


Can you explain this? I don't understand what you are commenting on here.
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #127 on: March 07, 2006, 05:39:58 PM »
Just saying that it may be more than just negligence or stupidity on the part of the cop. The investigators think it is a criminal offense.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #128 on: March 07, 2006, 05:46:41 PM »
OK, I understsand now what you meant, thanks.

As far as a criminal situation is concerned, yep I imagine that it would be. Very little justification for the use of deadly force at that time in that situation. Pepper spray would have been a far better choice. Then again maintaining a sense of professionalism and conduct would have been better too.
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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #129 on: March 07, 2006, 07:09:44 PM »
The article says "Attempted Murder" not manslaughter.  

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The deputy will not be charged with attempted murder. Prosecutors concluded that Webb acted in fear for his safety but that his fear was unreasonable, Ramos said.



PS

I think this is appropraite based on the evidence.  Give him his day in court and let the jury decide.  <<<-------that's alot more than he wanted to give the victom.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2006, 07:11:46 PM by Gunslinger »

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #130 on: March 07, 2006, 07:31:35 PM »
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
But the media was kind enough to add a "get up" subtitle, so it must be true.

Lets try some critical thinking: Who put those letters on that video? some media guy in a truck trying like hell to get that "exclusive" video on the air?, s/he thinks the Dep is saying "get up", so it's one persons opinion... that can influence millions.

Maybe it was the person who shot the video, did he upload it to a computer and edit it himself?

Watch it again and again, the MP is basically saying he's a cop, hes cool and he's going to get up... hes trying to take charge, but hes nothing more than an everyday nobody special suspect who has zero say in what goes on.

I cant clearly hear the Dep, but based on every bit of training I've had, which is the same as SBSO, "shut up" makes perfect sense while holding a semi prone mouthy suspect at gunpoint...."get up" makes no sense.

What would YOU (naysayers) do?, holding someone you just chased at gunpoint who tells you hes a cop and going to get up, then he gets up?

If you fight him, the driver can easily jump on your back, put you gun away the driver can cap you.. you had better be thinking these things and more, like who is in your kill zone, is there a cross fire, did the suspects crash near home and are his homies taking aim at your back?

You guys have all day to think about it without the benefit of being trained, fighting the MP sounds easy... until you realize there are 2 of them and 1 of you.. and if a Deputy sheriff loses a fight, just one, he dies.

The facts will come out, apparently they were in a residential area of Chino and I'm sure plenty of eye and ear witnesses will shed light on what was actually said.


When you unholster a weapon, the ONLY intent is to SHOOT, anything else and you are asking for trouble.   I know so many damn Police, State Troopers, on up to the FBI and Secret Service.  

What this "cowboy" did, should be at the MINIMUM 20 years.  He did NOT say "Shut up", he said "GET UP".  As for him calling Racial slurs while "on an adrenaline rush", that is even classier.   I guess in a way, the Officer needed the suspect to rise, so he WOULDN'T miss.   This is pure and simple the result of "Someone who wasn't paying attention to the training he was given".  

This is an UNJUSTIFYABLE shooting.  No justification, whatsoever.   IE, he's f**ked, and deserves to be in Prison, not JAIL (Misdemeanor), but "pound in the a** prison."  

"Validity".  Back in 1992, I worked with a buddy who had a 1989 Notchback Mustang that he raced with.  I was the passenger in the vehicle.  He had 2 Local PD cars, 3 Sheriff cars on his six, while he was doing 150.   I was calmly asking "What the f**k are you doing?".  My neighbor growing up is currently the Assistant Chief of a local PD.   He finally got caught in a residential area.  

The Sheriff Deputies beat the leaving s**t out of my buddy, the Local Police officers came to my side.  The windows were down, I had my hands up and very slowly reached the handle on the outside of the door, and got out, and sat down.  One wanted to cuff, and I said "Go ahead.  I've done nothing wrong, I've done everything to make your job easier because (mentioned my neighbor)"   One pulled me into the squad car and asked "How I got mixed up in this?" (clean record).  I told him "he WAS a friend, no longer is he."   They were still kicking the watermelon out of him, when I had the one officer drive me home.  I even gave him $20 for dinner (not a bribe, his wallet was empty, as he was saying "it seemed like it was a Pizza night".   I told him "Fair enough, you drove me about 20 miles, a cab would have been more expensive."  

I've discussed today in LENGTH, with my buddies (PD - Secret Service).  They all agree on an Attempted Murder Charge.   The Deputy f**ked up, and he should pay for it with Prison time.

Karaya

PS - I find it amusing that some in here, are "trying their damnest to defend this POS."  Why?  The sad fact is, The County this jack*** WORKED in, is tarnished.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2006, 07:38:42 PM by Masherbrum »
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Offline Bruno

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« Reply #131 on: March 07, 2006, 07:32:07 PM »
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The article says "Attempted Murder" not manslaughter.


No it doesn't

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A California sheriff's deputy, whose videotaped shooting of an unarmed Iraq war veteran caused a nationwide furor, will be charged with attempted manslaughter, authorities said on Tuesday.


Read your quote again...

Actually, I will help you...

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The deputy will not be charged with attempted murder. Prosecutors concluded that Webb acted in fear for his safety but that his fear was unreasonable, Ramos said.

Offline texace

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« Reply #132 on: March 07, 2006, 09:52:49 PM »
I still hear "don't get up."

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #133 on: March 07, 2006, 10:14:51 PM »
apparently the FBI does not agree with you Tex...

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #134 on: March 08, 2006, 10:35:08 AM »
OOOPS,


I've been moving and packing for the last two days for our cross country move.  My wits just aren't up to par today.  Thanks for the correction.