Airforce Police Officer Shot

[culero]

Originally posted by Colt44
snip
This can be corrected with training and the use of instinctive shooting techniques.  

Hope this helps...

Heh...sorry to have caused you to type all that We're on the same page here, as this is a subject of great personal interest to me and I subscribe to exactly the same understanding you've expressed.

My question was spefically, however, referring to my surprise that most badges I've seen can't even shoot targets well.

culero

[Colt44]

100% correct bruddah....  no argument here

[lasersailor184]

Immediately they are trying to discredit the man who shot the video:

Man Who Taped Airman Shooting Arrested

By GREG RISLING
The Associated Press
Saturday, February 4, 2006; 12:16 AM

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. -- A man who videotaped a sheriff's deputy shooting an unarmed Air Force security officer was arrested Friday for an alleged assault in Florida, officials said.

Jose Luis Valdes was taken into custody by Pomona police on a warrant for aggravated assault with a firearm from Miami-Dade County, Fla. The warrant came up during a routine background check when Valdes went to an immigration office, police said.
   

Mariela Carrion, left, wife of Air Force policeman Elio Carrion who was shot by a San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy at the end of a brief car chase on Sunday, arrives with her mother Maria Paz for a family news conference Friday, Feb. 3, 2006, outside the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department in San Bernardino, Calif. An amateur video shows officer Ivory Webb shooting Carrion, although he seems to be cooperating. The FBI has opened an inquiry into possible civil rights violations, and the Sheriff's Department is conducting its own probe. (AP Photo/Nick Ut)
Mariela Carrion, left, wife of Air Force policeman Elio Carrion who was shot by a San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy at the end of a brief car chase on Sunday, arrives with her mother Maria Paz for a family news conference Friday, Feb. 3, 2006, outside the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department in San Bernardino, Calif. An amateur video shows officer Ivory Webb shooting Carrion, although he seems to be cooperating. The FBI has opened an inquiry into possible civil rights violations, and the Sheriff's Department is conducting its own probe. (AP Photo/Nick Ut) (Nick Ut - AP)

Valdes, contacted by cell phone, confirmed he had been arrested but said the only problem he had in Miami was an arrest for driving under the influence. He did not elaborate about that arrest, but said authorities wanted to send him back to Florida within 24 hours.

"They want to get me out of California as soon as possible," Valdes said in Spanish. "They say I was involved in gunfire in Miami."

The airman's shooting happened in Chino, about 40 miles east of Los Angeles. Elio Carrion was a passenger in a Corvette that was involved in a brief high-speed chase and crashed into a wall, authorities said.

Valdes' tape showed Carrion on the ground talking with San Bernardino County sheriff's Deputy Ivory J. Webb, who stood pointing a gun at him. A recorded voice appeared to be commanding Carrion to "get up." As Carrion began to rise, the deputy fired three shots into him.

Carrion, 21, who recently returned from Iraq, was shot three times and was hospitalized in good condition.

Webb, 45, who has more than 10 years with the department, was placed on paid administrative leave.

The FBI has opened a civil rights investigation of the shooting but Carrion's family said Friday that more must be done. Members gathered outside sheriff's headquarters and demanded the deputy's arrest.

"My family is outraged because this person hasn't been arrested and is on paid vacation," Carrion's wife, Mariela, said at a news conference.

I say **** em.  I was willing to wait out the investigation, but I demand the death penalty now for the Police Officer.

[texace]

Cool yer jets, hot shot. No one's dead yet...

[Pooh21]

Hmmm I fell bad now for offending the hard working law enforcement professionals of this country. I am a bigot.

but to make all our little piggy,err law enforcement professionals feel better

gimme a













"Sieg Heil!"

[Silat]

New reports say that the Policeman was saying Shutup not getup...

[lazs2]

I am around dozens of cops a year while they are practicing (qualifying) ...

Most are just horrible shots.  They seem somewhat frieghtened of their own weapons yet somehow careless.  I know the trainers and they all act pretty disgusted with the recruits they get and the level of firearms expertise.

It was not allways so.  In the day of the revolver and the 6'+ tall male policeman and billy club.... them cops could shoot... one who couldn't was laughed at.   The San Leandro police pistol team used to shoot at a range I shot at and when the rangemaster and some other shooters said that I was probley better than them... boy.... did we have some good shooting matches... those guys were good.... that was in the day of the .357 mag revolver and the 1.7 shot average gunfight.

I believe that training is a big help but I think that it takes a sort of deliberate will to win a gunfight or...  as with colt 44.... to not shoot when it is not needed but be willing to at a fraction of a seconds notice.

I don't think affirmative action and getting rid of nightsticks is the right answer.

lazs

[Colt44]

Ok...let me get this straight laser...

The police are inept, unprofessional and can't do anything right....yet they are now involved in a beautifully masterminded, massive interagency conspiracy involing San Bernadino Sheriffs Office, the Pomona Police, the FBI and the Miami Dade Florida Police department to discredit the video taker in order to protect one deputy sheriff from bumblebutt California?

Yo bruddah, In a shooting investigation all persons involved are investigated so that when it goes to trial the defense attorney doesn't tear up the witness's credibility.  That includes if the Officer is charged!  

If that warrant information was to fall into the defense teams hands and the Video tapers background had not been checked, they would bring it up to tear up the wintess's credibility either just before the trial or at the trial.  Remember Jury's are fickle and public opinion changes.  The Officer might walk.

Of course then you would say that it was a massive conspiracy to get the Officer off and that the Police should have done a more thorough investigation before going to trail.
 
Ya can't have it both ways... were either brilliant or stupid...or maybe, just maybe, the police just are just trying to do the right thing here.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Bodhi
That cop is a POS...

Hope he enjoys prison.

Hang him by his balls in a court yard and allow citizens to piss on his face.

Prison is too good for this scum bag. *******s like this are why cops have a generally bad rep.

[lasersailor184]

Conspiracies are usually things that are kept hidden.  It is very clear what these people are doing and they should rot in hell for doing it.


The guy held a video camera.  His past isn't up for judgement unless he was a video editor.

The police are inept, unprofessional and can't do anything right....

But, umm...



YES

[texace]

That's easy for you to say, chief. You don't put the badge and gun belt on every day, nor are your actions up for the public to "Monday morning quarterback" to death each and every day.

Don't let the actions of one California cop affirm your beliefs about police officers the nation over. To do so would be narrow-minded.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by Silat
New reports say that the Policeman was saying Shutup not getup...

But the media was kind enough to add a "get up" subtitle, so it must be true.

Lets try some critical thinking: Who put those letters on that video? some media guy in a truck trying like hell to get that "exclusive" video on the air?, s/he thinks the Dep is saying "get up", so it's one persons opinion... that can influence millions.

Maybe it was the person who shot the video, did he upload it to a computer and edit it himself?

Watch it again and again, the MP is basically saying he's a cop, hes cool and he's going to get up... hes trying to take charge, but hes nothing more than an everyday nobody special suspect who has zero say in what goes on.

I cant clearly hear the Dep, but based on every bit of training I've had, which is the same as SBSO, "shut up" makes perfect sense while holding a semi prone mouthy suspect at gunpoint...."get up" makes no sense.

What would YOU (naysayers) do?, holding someone you just chased at gunpoint who tells you hes a cop and going to get up, then he gets up?

If you fight him, the driver can easily jump on your back, put you gun away the driver can cap you.. you had better be thinking these things and more, like who is in your kill zone, is there a cross fire, did the suspects crash near home and are his homies taking aim at your back?

You guys have all day to think about it without the benefit of being trained, fighting the MP sounds easy... until you realize there are 2 of them and 1 of you.. and if a Deputy sheriff loses a fight, just one, he dies.

The facts will come out, apparently they were in a residential area of Chino and I'm sure plenty of eye and ear witnesses will shed light on what was actually said.

[Squire]

I think there has been a lot of hysterics in the replies to this one, and I will stay out of most of them, but XMarineX, I would like to ask, and im not being a smarta**, I work with cops in my civilian job and I have a lot of respect for them (Canadian and US ones both), but here is my Q:

Regarding a suspect who is "resisting". I understand that the police have to arrest the perp, I mean, he was in a car involved in a chase, so hey, fair game, the guy is arrestable, but, you seem to paint the picture as if just because the perp is "resisting/being non compliant" (if he was) that lethal force is justified. My understanding is that lethal force is only justified to defend either yourself or the public from imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death. Ex. They guy has a weapon, or he is doing something that will cause serious injury to the Deputy (like say running him down with a car, ect).

To shoot simply because he is being uncooperative seems to be a huge jump in force level does it not? Tazer, baton, pepper spray or open hand would be considered appropriate for an unarmed man, in almost all situations like that, I think. To be shot for not being compliant in a pursuit arrest seems a bit heavy handed. Deputy says dont get up, he gets up, and at that point you open fire? Im not sure about that, unless there was something else that raises the threat level which we dont see in the vid.

I will finish by saying, after viewing the vid several times, its too poor quality to really know what happened. The sound is poor, and its dark, and I would wait to see what the investigators come up with. I wasn't there, and Im not pretending that I was.

Regards.

[lasersailor184]

As I have already stated in this thread Texace, my faith in police was gone way before this ever happened.



And also, as I have said, the use of a Tazer would not have made sense.  I explained why, I don't feel like repeating myself for the 50th time.

[texace]

Traffic stop go wrong, mate?