Author Topic: Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release (Read 9287 times)

straffo · « **Reply #30 on:** February 15, 2006, 05:33:02 AM »

I disagree with Wilbus.

Shifty · « **Reply #31 on:** February 15, 2006, 07:13:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus
Well actually I don't think so. Of course this is my opinion.

The "allied rides are easy mode" I base entirily on my feeling. I feel they are ALOT easier to handle then the LW planes.

This is emediatly felt when you try any allied plane. Another thing that shows a clear difference is the need for trimming. The 190's currently need the most trimming (they shouldn't really need any at all). The 109's require alot of trimming aswell but not quite as much. I am not talking about trimming out of dives here but trimming for the speed you are currently in.

The allied planes almost fly without me doing anything with the trim, it is almost like flying with CT on at all times.

I know non of you will agree with me but like I said, I base my opinion on my feelings. And my opinion is the LW rides have a far far steeper learning curve.

Shifty, as far as "us" being in 109's from day one this isn't really true as we get 190's aswell.

And, (this could be because I fly many planes in the MA) I really don't have a problem going from a 109 to a P51 and flying it on the edge aswell. Hasn't got all that much to do with being used to the planes.

I realize you got the 190 as well Wilbus. I used way too much sarcasm in my reply. Now I'm basing my observations on the CT/AvA not the MA at all. I've been a LW flyer before myself in JG3, and JG54. I understand what you say about LW planes needing more skill to fly. I agree with you to a point.

Yes it takes skill to be good in LW rides. Once a LW guy becomes experianced he is deadly. However when he is shot down , it's not just because the Allied planes are uber. That chorus gets beat to death in the AvA.

One disadvantage I do think the LW guys have is the number of plane types they fight against more than the types themselves. When I fly Allied I know I'm going to have to deal with usually one or two planes. The 109, or the 190. Occasionally 110's.

Where I do think the axis get screwed is having to fight Spits/Hurris/Typh/Temp/P38s/P51s/P47s, all at the same time. Thats a lot of different plane types , and performance envelopes to fight against.

I'll vote to get rid of the RAF planes as long as the P-47 can be included 80% of the time.

DipStick · « **Reply #32 on:** February 15, 2006, 07:56:39 AM »

I disagree with Wilbus.

Westy · « **Reply #33 on:** February 15, 2006, 07:58:17 AM »

That was a truly lame and uninspiring response. Making fun of the area under my sink? You should have gone with the more intelligent and scorching "you're momma wears army boots."

Max · « **Reply #34 on:** February 15, 2006, 08:42:31 AM »

Wilbus · « **Reply #35 on:** February 15, 2006, 10:55:17 AM »

I think I should have been more clear Shifty

Allied planes take skill to get good in. They take alot of skill to get good in. However, they are still far easier to start in for a n00b aswell as for an average pilot.

There's a reason many N00bs fly P51 (not just because it is a famous plane) over the 109's or 190's.

50 cal makes it easy as hell to hit (although they lack the punch of 20mm). It requires very little trimming (only an advantage to those of us who don't use Combat trim). It turns far far better then any 190 while it performs equally good in high speeds. It performs far better then the 109 at high speeds and still outturn the 109 (although the 109 should beat it in a climbing turn).

Same thing goes for P47 and P38, while they are different from the Pony they too are far easier than the 109's and 190's. Maybe not just because they need far less trimming (ok so the P38 has got two counter rotating props so we'll leave out aileron trim there) but MUCH because of the guns.

The 109's have become "experten" planes much because they fly around with quite poor (although nose mounted) armament with very little ammo. Alternative 2 is to bring gondies but that has a serious effect on performance. 190's are just plain hard to aim in. Add to this that both the 109 and the 190 suffers from very poor forward view which makes deflection shots more then twice as difficult compared to pretty much every allied plane in the AvA now.

When an LW guy is shot down it's not just because of the planes, actually, it has very little to do with the planes most of the time. It's the man not the machine. However, the machine gives a distinct advantage.

I will stick to my opinion that the allied planes are far easier to get kills in and easier to fly aswell as gun in. This is one of the reasons more pilots fly allied then there are LW (although the LW community is by far the loudest).

And like I said before, my opinion is based from having flown AH from the first day of the open beta. I've been through every plane in AH and have flown most of them alot. Having gone from being a sissyfire 5 pilot in the beta days to changing to Pony, F4u, P38 and P47 (spent several tours in each of them), 190 A8 and later A5 and Dora, 109's etc I believe I know pretty much every advantage and disadvantage of them.

wetrat · « **Reply #36 on:** February 15, 2006, 11:16:35 AM »

WTF are you constantly messing with trim in 109's for, wilbus? There's no need. I trim ele's up for high speed turns and to get out of dives... other than that, it's just another distraction that yields little to no results. I'd rather have my hand on my throttle working me through turns than screw with trim that does nothing at low speeds.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #37 on:** February 15, 2006, 12:25:21 PM »

I continue to disagree with Wilbus.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Stang · « **Reply #38 on:** February 15, 2006, 12:29:45 PM »

109 flaps, 109 flaps, 109 flaps, 109 flaps, 109 flaps...

go away Todd.

Simaril · « **Reply #39 on:** February 15, 2006, 01:14:44 PM »

Though I dont have much to offer in this forum, I must say I am impressed that about a third of this threads' postings are concise and respectful. I dont think I've ever seen a simple "I disagree with" posting -- no posturing, no puffery, no insultsing tone!

Clearly some of you are taking meds before entering the forum, and I was wondering if those could be made available for "aircraft and vehicle" posters?

Stringer · « **Reply #40 on:** February 15, 2006, 01:17:02 PM »

I disagree with Simaril AND Wilbus.

Wilbus · « **Reply #41 on:** February 15, 2006, 03:13:35 PM »

Wetrat, trim takes alot of workload away from the hand working the stick. To constantly be trimmed "right" enables you to aim far better (which is why CT gives an advantage in most cases). I constantly trim for the speed I am in, at all speeds in all planes. Of course, trimming out of dives is a must with 109's.

As for you rather haveing your hand on the throttle. I can do both considerig I have my trim knobs on the throttle.

And you are wrong about it not giving any results. Imagine being trimmed for 300. Then you suddenly slow down to 200 and want to take a snapshot, you pull the stick then eas of a little and the planes nose imediatly tips down, you miss the shot.

Trim does a hell of alot in all speeds. Think about it, why was CT added? Clearly it is not to trim people out of high speed dives as it does the exact opposit.

But you are right about it being a workload, a workload that almost doesn't exist in allied rides.

I agree with Simaril and am surprised I still have been attacked

I agree with Stang on both flaps and the Tod thing

mandingo · « **Reply #42 on:** February 15, 2006, 04:30:19 PM »

hi. i am always turning with spits in my k4, and im really so used to it that flying a g6 against p51bs is no problem. infact i could probably turn a k4 with zekes. you need to be really good to fly the 109s.

Wilbus · « **Reply #43 on:** February 15, 2006, 05:03:15 PM »

Cool Mandingo. Let's go into the DA you and I.

You in a K4 and me a spit, any spit. Then me in a Zeke

I give you 10 seconds after the first merge, at most, unless you run

Kweassa · « **Reply #44 on:** February 15, 2006, 05:29:50 PM »

Quote

Question: "How do you fix something which you can't actually prove is wrong?"

Answer: "You can't. So don't fix it"

The above is probably the best way to describe HTC's attitude on this matter, at least, IMO.

I've dedicated a lot of posts in many threads concerning this very subject. Being entirely untrained in any kind of aero-engineering knowledge, the only thing I could do was to try and provide anecdotes from other gamers, and compare the each of planes in as objective a way as I could imagine.

I strongly feel that either;

1) the 109 and 190 has stability issues so serious as to be considered 'abnormal'

or

2) the major opposition the historical 109s and 190s faced in the war, are much too stable and easy to manage, notably the USAAF planes

The willingness and aggressiveness of the P-51 and P-47 pilots in the game, to engage planes known as much more maneuverable than their own, often with considerable success, often surprises me - and not all of them are the 'expert pilots', so to speak.

In common contrast, the frustration levels mounting around 109s and 190s are IMO seriously high among the 190 or 109 pilots in the game, I myself included. Not all of them are dedicated 'LW pilots', as one might suggest, and definately not all of the cases are related with personal skill issues. Engaging in a slow-speed fight, which typically described as 'superior against the opposition' is in the MA a near suicidal attempt, IMO, and such results manifest itself in the form of the general tendency of how people fly the plane - "Bore and Zoom", as someone might put it.

The problem is, how can I prove that AH's version of depiction in the stability of the 109/190 pair and the P-51/P-47 pair is wrong? If anyone else has got any ideas, please, let me know.