Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$

[dedalos]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
People will fly whatever's "best" regardless of the country of manufacture ... if HT shoved jet packs and a photon cannon on the C202 this afternoon I guarantee almost everyone would be flying it tonight. And everyone who wasn't would be complaining about Uber and Porkage.

Ignorant:furious   Photon torpedos not cannon

[ghi]

simaril,

How can you explain that a P47/P38/F4us with almost double weight and size are soo agile  comparing with 190s/109s??

  FW190A6/A8 Sturmbock,were called"butcher bird"
,Did you  try in AH to intercept a formation of loaded Lancs in  at high alt, i did and i couldn't catch them,

[hitech]

Ill state it as plainly as I can.

We never have nore ever will adjusted models based on the country of origen.

HiTech

[Brenjen]

Originally posted by dedalos
Ignorant:furious   Photon torpedos not cannon

 Maybe in Star Trek..but not in Battlestar Galactica. They've had photon cannon in several Sci-Fi movies & tv series.

 But as far as this discussion...it does seem a bit ridiculous to think HT would nueter LW a/c for the sake of sales. I don't think that idea makes much sense at all. I find them more difficult to handle & easier to stall, but that's because of my way of flying. I saw a head to head on a history channel show of the Spit & 109 ( can't remember the actual model types of the a/c in the tests ) not long ago. It was their determination after getting the two a/c flying against each other for 1v1 dogfighting tests that the outcome of said fight would boil down to pilot skill & who saw who first.

 Of course they mentioned the neg. "G" carb. problem the early Spits had; & they mentioned that the 109 pilots best defense in his fuel injected machine was to force the Spit into a neg. "G" dive to stall his engine ( if the Spit pilot was foolish enough to fall for it ) then pounce on him. What a lot of the historical numbers don't tell you is the reason for the outcome of a lot of incidents reported. It was pilot attrition (sp?) in a lot of cases that caused accidents or great planes to fall victim to inferior ones. If you have lifted your gear for the first time & it's in combat....I don't care what you're flying....you're probably never coming back.

 If I got a an actual report of a dogfight complete with gun-cam footage to back up everything that was claimed, I would still have to wonder what the pilot of the losing aircraft knew or didn't know about air combat. And those incidents skew some modern understanding of the capabilities of certain a/c as well as hollwoods portrayal. How many kids grew up watching movies where the P-51 was un-beatable then get into a flight sim & jump straight into their favorite "un-beatable Mustang, caddilac of the sky" only to get smoked? For me it was the F-4U...I grew up watching Baa-Baa Blacksheep, & I always thought it was the most beautiful plane ever built....sure wish I could fight well ( or even somewhat good  ) with it.

[Iceman24]

I have always been one to gripe about the LW aircrafts flight models, particularly the 190's, but after reading Simaril's post's the last few days, especially the one with the documented testing I now see that I was wrong, they look pretty accurate to me now that I have read all that, so you at least converted 1 person Simaril

[RTSigma]

I don't think the LW planes are rubbish, in fact thats what I mostly fly even if I do suck in them. But I bet you're going to get more in them in a fight than if you were flying a LA7 or a P-51.

The reason people think that the LW planes are "porked" because the 190 isn't a turnfighter that people want it to be. The 109 isn't easy to aim with and has an anemic high-power ammo load. People complain because they are not getting the fun they want and figure IT HAS TO BE HTC. Its not, its the pilot.

If I am scoring kills left and right in 109's and 190, then theres nothing wrong with them. I can't cherry pick, BnZ correctly, so I have to be skillfull and manipulate my X52 and CH Rudder to do what I want.


I'll tell you this though: If you see someone flying a 109, 75% of the time its a pilot who knows what they are doing. The other 25% are hoping to be like the other 75%.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by -pjk--
Newbies and quakelike will pick "best" DoK.
Old farts fly what they like ;-)

...

Yeah, and fortunately AH has enough alternatives to keep folks happy if their favorite ride isn't competitive in the MA.

I have big fun in the La-5 and Yak-9, if my gunnery didn't blow chunks I'd even have kills in them planes.

[culero]

Originally posted by hitech
Ill state it as plainly as I can.

We never have nore ever will adjusted models based on the country of origen.

HiTech

I've seen a lot of nice fish in my time, but this one takes the cake

culero ~g,d,rlh~

[straffo]

Mathman == teh old wise monk !

[wetrat]

I think the 190's are fairly accurate, with the exception of the A8. Our A8 sucks. Badly. German pilots who flew the A8 loved it, and in many cases preferred it to the A5. In AH, I think anyone who'd prefer to fight in an A8 vs. an A5 only flies in straight lines

My only gripe with the 109 FM is flap deployment... other than that, I think they're fairly accurate. Notable exception being the G14... its performance figures are just plain wrong. It flies like a late G6 or something. In the latter stages of the air war, only experienced/skilled pilots were successful in 109's... everyone else got shot down and/or died. If anything, our 109's are too forgiving on takeoff/landing... but then, so are the hogs and several others.

In conclusion, GIVE ME MY FLAPS.

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo

I have big fun in the La-5 and Yak-9, if my gunnery didn't blow chunks I'd even have kills in them planes.

Dok...

I found the cure for the gunnery problem. Crawl up the bad guy's anal orifice and shoot your way out from the inside.

[wetrat]

Originally posted by NoBaddy
Dok...

I found the cure for the gunnery problem. Crawl up the bad guy's anal orifice and shoot your way out from the inside.

Listen to this man. He's discovered the secret to gunnery with non-ezmode weapons.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Fencer51
Not that I agree with it, but you asked..

"Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe"

Bought it, flew it maybe 2 hours and put it on the shelf.

Hehe.

I'm still safe with the qualifiers..."well designed" keeps me safe for SWoTL. I never bought the game because it got anemic reviews in Computer Gaming World at the time. Long time ago, but as I remember the buzz was that it made more compromises than Larry Holland had in Their Finest Hour, and that its move towards arcadism would turn off some players.

Originally posted by Ghi
simaril,

How can you explain that a P47/P38/F4us with almost double weight and size are soo agile comparing with 190s/109s??

FW190A6/A8 Sturmbock,were called"butcher bird"
,Did you try in AH to intercept a formation of loaded Lancs in at high alt, i did and i couldn't catch them,

Having read soem detailed operational histories (my favorite being the very LONG JG 26, I'd say the biggest reason is that the real life pilots flew with tactics that have NO SIMILARITY to AH2. Sortie after sortie, you read about 190s gaining alt advantage, diving (often unseen) in from the sun for a brutal, deadly pass, and then doing a split-s before clearing out of Dodge. In AH, the LW guys want their birds to knife fight and complain when they dotn get the same results as were seen "historically".

About your bomber attack: Not having a film, its hard to say. But I can share something of my own experience that might explain it.

High alt fighting is VERY different than usual AH2 fare -- I've found that after a tour or two delivberately working on it.

The first time I tried to chase 22K+ buffs in a 262, I found the Swalbe wallowed and died at about 20K. I'd try to climb at full throttle, but stalled out repeatedly and resorted to using flaps to maintain stability. I never even got an attack run going.

Second time, I figured out how to do it and was zipping through the air, slashing away well above 25K.

The problem wasnt the model, its was me. I was trying to climb the same way I did at 10K, and it doesnt work up high. (Aeronautics types, correct me when I mess this up.) If you climb too steeply up high, you have to increase the angle of attack so much that the wing loses its lift -- also generating more resistance to forward motion and slowing you down further.  My second sortie, I let the bird build up a head of steam, and once that high speed was established I could gently climb and maneuver. BUT...at high alt you have to move smoothly and gently.

If you think of on the deck fighting as being like karate, high alt fighting is like Tai Chi -- that exercise thing you see old people doing in chinese parks. If you dont adapt, ANY plane will behave badly up high.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by NoBaddy
Dok...

I found the cure for the gunnery problem. Crawl up the bad guy's anal orifice and shoot your way out from the inside.

Yeah ... now that I'm trying to fly w/o tracers I pulled conv down to 300 and shoot much closer in. When I hit something with a solid burst from the La-5 it usually doesn't last long after that.

[E25280]

Originally posted by wetrat
I think the 190's are fairly accurate, with the exception of the A8. Our A8 sucks. Badly. German pilots who flew the A8 loved it, and in many cases preferred it to the A5. In AH, I think anyone who'd prefer to fight in an A8 vs. an A5 only flies in straight lines

My only gripe with the 109 FM is flap deployment... other than that, I think they're fairly accurate. Notable exception being the G14... its performance figures are just plain wrong. It flies like a late G6 or something. In the latter stages of the air war, only experienced/skilled pilots were successful in 109's... everyone else got shot down and/or died. If anything, our 109's are too forgiving on takeoff/landing... but then, so are the hogs and several others.

In conclusion, GIVE ME MY FLAPS.

IMO, this is exactly the problem and the cause of the constant complaints and ultimately the "conspiracy theories".

From posts like this and others I've seen, it seems to be common knowledge / accepted fact that there are KNOWN problems with AT LEAST a few LW planes.  These problems have been out there for a while with requests to have them fixed.

And they remain unfixed.
And they still remain unfixed.
And they remain unfixed AGAIN.
And so on . . .

So eventually someone gets it in their head that there must be a REASON the known problem remains unfixed.  I know enough to know that I don't know anything about programming (did that make sense??), therefore I personally give the designers the benefit of the doubt and say, "Geez, it must be a big deal to make even little fixes, they will get to it eventually."

A less forgiving (or perhaps more programming knowledgeable?) person may instead come to the conclusion "it is such a small fix, they must WANT the LW to be wrong".  Then insert favorite conspiracy theory here.  

Like most conspiracy theories, they may tend toward the loopy (intentionally messing up your flight model makes you MORE money?? WHA?), but I can at least see why they got started in the first place.