Author Topic: Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$  (Read 3960 times)

Offline Simaril

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« on: February 17, 2006, 09:01:58 AM »
This claim keeps coming up on the BBS and 200 chat. I frankly am getting tired of hearing it, and tired of the claimant's imperviousness to logic when its been discussed.

After posting a response buried deep in some other thread, I thought it might be worthwhile to get it more out in the open for general discussion. So, I'm reposting as a new thread....


Quote
Originally posted by Glasses
...snip...
Yeah and they know it'll remain the same,cus LW sucking =$$$$$
...snip...



This nonsense claim is driving me nuts.

Several LW proponents routinely claim that HTC deliberately porks LW because US customers wouldnt play if the LW were as "good as it was supposed to be."

That idea is 100% without basis in fact.

One. When I work with newbs, they often ask "whats the best plane?" Obviously there's no simple answer to that, but the implication is obvious: they want to know what plane gives them the best chance of success as a beginner. They dont care if I tell them the Soviet La-7 for speed, or the British Spit VIII for turning, the Japanese Nik for maneuverability+firepower, or the US P-51 for energy fighting.  THEY JUST WANT WHAT WORKS, and they dont care about politics. HTC would lose no money if I they heard that the Fw-190D-9 was a good starting BnZ plane...newbs would just fly it (and gloat about their kills).

Two. Other VERY successful games have non- US uber weapons. Call of Duty's best gun is probably the MP-44, and the US BAR is heavy and slow. The Garand has less hitting power than it should. No one cares. CounterStrikes best guns are not US weapons. No one cares. Players want to succeed, and they want to learn each games' quirks on its own terms. Its not about nationalism playing a game, players just want to succeed.

Three. If anything, in the US market the WW2 German side carries a mystique that sells. For many years in the computer games press I remember reading that "nukes and Nazis" were slam dunk topics. Panzer General introduced unit quality enhancement to computer wargames, and sold like proverbial hotcakes, all from the german side. When they ported the idea to the allied side (Pacific General), the game died -- because it was stale, not because of nationalism. Steel Panthers succeeded even though it accurately modelled the overwhelming power of the 88mm AT gun, the power of the Tiger, and the wimpiness of allied armor. In general, being able to play the bad guy or underdog's side has a dark appeal, which is why (for example) many wished they could play the Alien side in X-Com. I could go on and on, but the point is obvious to anyone who thinks about it.




You can criticize the modelling of the LW rides if you want, but leave out the "economic driven" slander.  It's absolutely 100% illogical drivel.





If you still disagree, here's the challenge:

I've given multiple examples of games that succeeded despite haveing better German weapons. Show me an example of a well designed, well marketed game that failed BECAUSE OF a setup that favored the Germans.
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Offline Pooface

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2006, 09:17:19 AM »
i think whining about the LW stuff is a little silly. i mean sure, there are a few things that could be fixed, eg the 109 flaps and the g14 performance, but the fun in flying the LW rides comes from them being a challenge

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2006, 09:17:28 AM »
I played Steel Panthers tabletop.  I personally, have no problems in the LW rides.  

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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2006, 09:22:35 AM »
I dont pretend to know enough to say whether they're right or wrong.  The "porking for financial gain" thing has jsut gotten to be a burr under my saddle.



I always liked Steel Panthers, really fun game. Since I dont have many gamers around me, I really liked the adequate AI and the fog of war that made unsighted units invisible.
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Offline Socks

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2006, 09:34:24 AM »
Although I also don't have enough experience with the LW rides to jump the fence over to correct or incorrect.. I'd have to agree that basing the facts off of a financial mission sounds pretty bogus to me. I'd also have to note Pooface, in saying that taking up a LW ride seems to be more of a challenge just due to the nature of their characteristics - to quote a snip from Soda's Evaluation page on the 190D, "tends to find more success to those with a little more experience". That's for sure.

In any case, to add a side dish to Simaril's main meal I'd have to list the Close Combat series, the Combat Mission series, Silent Storm, & Silent Hunter III. There's just something about fine German weaponry implemented in a game that makes me tingle. Coming across a King Tiger in CC, using a Stug G in CM, finding that MG42 for your machine gunner in SS, and wreaking havoc in the Atlantic in a VIIC U-Boat makes for some good moments. I've not once came across a game that's gimped German weaponry for some more financial appeal.

*shrug*

Offline dedalos

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2006, 10:10:11 AM »
Agreed.  It is not money driven.  I don't even know if there is anythign wrogn with LW planes.  I do know that they are different from any other plane in the game.  I can do things in non german planes 10ft off the water that the thought of doing in a 109 would cause the plane to spin.  

Again, not saing there is anything wrong with their modeling.  It could be the modeling of the other planes, or it could be that this is how it was.  They are just so different than the rest that they stick out.

Last night after running out of ammo, I had to dog fight my B17 vs a 190 few feet off the water.   While I was able to pull on the stick on the 17 as hard as I wanted and use flaps to even pull a reversal on the 190, after the fifth atempt he fall in the water.  To make maters worst, I did not dump my bombs till after the third pass.  That has to be wrong :lol
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Offline Fencer51

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2006, 11:37:02 AM »
Not that I agree with it, but you asked..

"Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe"

Bought it, flew it maybe 2 hours and put it on the shelf.
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2006, 11:41:13 AM »
The financial aspect of it is stupid. There's no reason to claim this happens for money reasons.

It just happens. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't mean it's a conspiracy motivated with reasons ($$$ in this case), it just means it happens.

Offline wetrat

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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2006, 11:45:34 AM »
The fact that it requires more skill to fight (well) in a 109 is probably accurate... how many 109's were lost to landing/takeoff accidents? I think that's a fair indication of the plane's behaviour. HOWEVER... the flaps are wrong. The flaps are also wrong on P51's/47's. The flaps being wrong on the allied birds makes them fly better. That's fine with me. The flaps being wrong on the 109's makes them pigs. I notice a SIGNIFICANT difference in handling in the threshold between 180mph, a little to fast to drop flaps, but definitely in need of them, and 165(or170... whatever indicated speed they start going down at) when I can start dumping them. The plane handles MUCH better, and fights with my inputs much less once I start getting flaps down. With a few notches of flaps at 150mph, the plane handles better/more forgivingly than it does at 190-200 without them.

Flaps won't make 109's easy, and it certainly won't turn them into MesserSPITS, but they'll be more competitive in our main arcade. Give me a 109G2 that can drop flaps at the correct speed, and I'll show you a 109 that can thoroughly slaughter the ezmoders.
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Offline indy007

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Re: Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2006, 12:08:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Two. Other VERY successful games have non- US uber weapons. Call of Duty's best gun is probably the MP-44, and the US BAR is heavy and slow. The Garand has less hitting power than it should. No one cares. CounterStrikes best guns are not US weapons. No one cares. Players want to succeed, and they want to learn each games' quirks on its own terms. Its not about nationalism playing a game, players just want to succeed.
[/B]


I agree with everything but this... I played CAL-O/M/I & CPL in Counter-Strike, and dollar for dollar, the M4 rocks :) Every bit as good as the AK.

Offline Mathman

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2006, 12:09:13 PM »
I used to play this game all the time and read the boards whenever I had the chance.  Been away for the better part of 2 years, with occasioinal moments of popping back into the game and BBS every so often.  I am so glad that the LW conspiracy theories and worries are alive and well.  They are just as entertaining now as they were back when it was RAM doing the whining.

Please, do not discourage them too much.  Without them, the boards would be stale repeats of killshooter and gangbang whines with furball vs. strat arguments thrown in from time to time.

So, in closing, I give a hearty to the likes of RAM and Hristo, with a nod to their modern heirs like Crump, storch and a doff of the cap to the long time holdouts like Glasses.  You all have given this allied opportunist a good source of entertainment and peek into the psyche of the good little internet Bundes.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2006, 12:29:21 PM by Mathman »

Offline Mustaine

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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2006, 12:15:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Last night after running out of ammo, I had to dog fight my B17 vs a 190 few feet off the water.   While I was able to pull on the stick on the 17 as hard as I wanted and use flaps to even pull a reversal on the 190, after the fifth atempt he fall in the water.  To make maters worst, I did not dump my bombs till after the third pass.  That has to be wrong :lol
see it is things like that many of us "lw aficionados" have witnessed, and make us believe the conspiracy. personally i am :furious :mad: :rofl :lol :cry :aok about the whole thing :p
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Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2006, 12:23:27 PM »
The flaps are not wrong on the Pony. Nice try.
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Offline DoKGonZo

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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2006, 12:25:15 PM »
People will fly whatever's "best" regardless of the country of manufacture ... if HT shoved jet packs and a photon cannon on the C202 this afternoon I guarantee almost everyone would be flying it tonight. And everyone who wasn't would be complaining about Uber and Porkage.

Offline -pjk--

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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2006, 12:43:41 PM »
Newbies and quakelike will pick "best" DoK.
Old farts fly what they like ;-)


Most of the case in ww2 online a2a games there is no big probs to fly LW iron, actually there is only 3 i have played;Wb, AH and ww2ol.
At beginning it is kinda "underdog situation" in LW planes, but that effects mostly to newbies or pure spit/p51/la pilots in LW ride ;-). It takes more time to be effective in 109/190 than spit/p51/Lada.
Of 3 games i mentioned, playing  AH you  you have best possibilty to be effective in LW plane, next comes WB and last ww2ol:D
I am not the best reference to say this, but i have played everyone enought to get figure;)

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