Author Topic: Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$  (Read 3963 times)

Offline DoKGonZo

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2006, 12:54:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DrDea
Anyone that claims that the LW planes are porked are either
A  An idiot
...


Waiting to see if this message gets nuked or not ...

Offline DrDea

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2006, 01:00:51 AM »
Oh come on Dok...I like your pages.....You know the LW isnt porked.You of all people with your flight sim experience from day 1 should have the fax.
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2006, 01:02:10 AM »
I hope it does.

The K-4 is identical in stats to the old G-10, and yet somehow it cannot fly as well, it is much more unstable at most speeds and in most conditions that the G-10 thrived in. So, while the stats are the same, perhaps, the overall performance continues to go downhill. I don't give a damn if a few folks that have been flying for 15 years in 30+ different flight sims can get kills in it -- that's besides the point, hell even a monkey can be trained to go into space given enough time -- the point is they keep getting worse, and have been worse, for a long time, when historically they were not this unstable, and while historically their counterparts were nearly deathtraps (yet these counterparts in AH are smooth as a baby's behind).

No conspiracy. No this side vs that side bs. Just the 109s suck, and have for a long time. If you make them NOT suck you will not make them uber. They will simply be possible to fly without stalling out left and right.

Offline Mr No Name

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2006, 03:29:03 AM »
First of all, the money conspiracy is BOGUS... I have my beef with HTC over a few items but this is one that is very much undeserved... SURE I can be a jerk at times but when you think that there is a $$$ reason to pork the LW models you have truly eclipsed me and I KNOW I can get too bent out of shape sometimes! (Typically after having my arse handed to me a few too many times)

I believe that hitech & company do a better job in some departments than they do in others.  It is no mystery to anyone that has read any of my posts that I disagree in the performance, damage and ballistics modeling of SOME of the LW rides. I have said enough elsewhere so there is no need to rehash it here.

Do as I do, when I get frustrated enough, I play other games!  When you start to believe that someone is making a lot of money to skew the models... time to switch to Decaf!

Vote R.E. Lee '24

Offline Morpheus

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2006, 06:02:13 AM »
With a statement like this....

Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Ill state it as plainly as I can.

We never have nore ever will adjusted models based on the country of origen.

HiTech


...you would think the whinners would just shut up, swallow the load and move on.

But nope. :lol

Some just like to piss and moan and waste time.
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Offline Apar

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« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2006, 06:50:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
With a statement like this....

 

...you would think the whinners would just shut up, swallow the load and move on.

But nope. :lol

Some just like to piss and moan and waste time.


Oh I believe that HT doesn't pork LW planes Morph, but I don't like the priority he gives fixing the flaws in the models.

Remember how fast the "P38 Glass Tail" was fixed??

And playing this game is waisting time anyway, so moaning about it won't make much diff to me.

Offline Ghosth

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2006, 08:41:50 AM »
You all know me, you know I've been a russian fighter fan for years.

Yet ever since the 109K4 came out it has been calling my name.
Now granted I'm not a LW fan. But I had it driven home to me quite hard yesterday. Was a nice furball going over the water S of 42. I was flying with Wilbuz, he rolled a dora, I took off in 109K4. Had 15 minutes of good fights , ended up low & slow & died with my 3 kills. Good sortie, good fights, good feelings all around.

Upped in la5, got 2 kills & died. Not bad, got myself in deeper than I should have, my fault.
Upped K4 again, only 2 kills but survived. Awesome.
Upped La5 again, no kills and died right away.


I don't know what the 109k4 "Should" do, all I know is that in the current arena with spit 16's, nik's, and la7's the K4 keeps me alive more often.
And I've seen it day after day, furball after furball.

My only real problems is that I suck at hitting with the tater gun.
But thats MY shortcoming not the planes.  What I do know is that I survive more sorties in the 109K4 that I'm NOT all that good at flying. Than I do in the La5fn that I've flown for years.

Sorry but that doesn't add up to LW conspiracy to me.

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2006, 09:10:58 AM »
the 109s are uber easy to get kills in.

the 190 A5 kicks the spit16s bellybutton in the general MA standards.

the 262 is the best plane in the game to get kills and stay alive in.

the C205/202 are uber.

the ME163 is stupidly overmodeled.

the tiger is almost the hardest thing to kill in the game.

the ju88 carries the second largest bomb load in the game.

the stuka can outturn a zeke.



That just about nulifies any claims that LW/AXIS is porked imo.




And as to the 'political' or 'business' argument.....


just HOW MANY squads made up of US players are honouring real WW2 LW squadrons?


you think JGXX means 'Jovial Guys'?




pfffffft.


learn to fly, and/or stop basing your theories on the stupid modeling of the IL2 series from maddox games. that set of games is for people who like eye candy but are afraid of ACMs.




my 2c.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2006, 09:13:37 AM by B@tfinkV »
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Simaril

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2006, 09:51:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
...snip....


Ps. Simaril, I really wonder why this kind of thread has no been locked already, and even more I wonder why you started it. You being pissed of something somebody said in textbuffer is not a very good reason. I think it's just harmful propaganda, and aimed at certain people you consider as your opposition. Just as Mathman's post. Harassment.

-C+



Well, you made me think.

I dont have opponents, I dont have grudges. I do have 2-3 people who get under my skin, but to be honest I squelch/ignore them because I dont like how I behave when they get to me. As a matter of personal integrity, I amke a point of publically righting any wrongs I inflict whe I'm mad.

I'm not basing my reaction to the "deliberately porked for money" claim on single incidents or contacts. I did have an extended exchange with soemone once on 200, and I admit I got frustrated because it seemed that no amount of logic and evidence would change his assertions that HTC was deliberately porking the LW for financial reasons.

But, the "porked for money" issue's come up several times scattered in other threads, and it just doesnt seem to go away. Each time I call somebody on the claim, they seem to back down... and several have stopped making the claim. But, some people continue to rant on claiming that HTC is doing it deliberately for financial gain.

That claim is unsupportable by data, and is in any case based on a faulty assumption (that US customers will reject a game with powerful german weapons).

HTC has never hinted that they'd ever go that route, but to be honest they probably have a case to pursue libel charges if they desired. The legal definition in the US is:
Quote
LIBEL - Published material meeting three conditions: The material is defamatory either on its face or indirectly; The defamatory statement is about someone who is identifiable to one or more persons; and, The material must be distributed to someone other than the offended party


Think about it -- the claim is demonstrably false, attacks their professional integrity, assaults their professional product, its published to others on the net, and it can demonstably cause harm to them professionally and financially. It would neither be productive nor effective to pursue libel charges, and it'll never happen -- but that doesnt change the fact that its just flat wrong to spread lies.


Dont misunderstand what I'm saying. Disagreements are fine, and discussing disagreements productively is 100% appropriate. "Yes men" will conspire to produce inferior products. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with thinkning that the LW rides arent modelled correctly, or even with disliking design compromises that hurt one side more than the other for playability's sake. Arguing about the implications of historical reports is completely legitimate.

To put it bluntly, I have no problem with luftwaffe fans and have no interest in who "wins" the discussions. I'm a mediocre enough virtual pilot that anybody with talent can beat me in any particular plane. The times I've posted data its been with a sense of "Cool! Look what I found!" because to me the whole historical research field is like a candy shop -- its all sweet, regardless of the flavor!


I just dont like seeing irrational stuff pushed loudly; because as (I think) Goebbels use to say, "If you repeat the lie loud enough and often enough people will believe it is true."


So thats why I posted.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2006, 09:58:45 AM by Simaril »
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Offline DoKGonZo

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Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2006, 01:28:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DrDea
Oh come on Dok...I like your pages.....You know the LW isnt porked.You of all people with your flight sim experience from day 1 should have the fax.


I know the performance data isn't porked.

The handling is not right, though. I wouldn't go so far as to call it "porked" but it is not right and it seems only the LW rides are affected by the Luftwobble and other dynamic weirdness. It's probably only a coicidence of one sort or another that made only the LW planes be affected. And it's probably just shaving 10% off some constants here or there to fix it.

Offline Simaril

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« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2006, 02:18:53 PM »
Question, for HT or those who have sim programming experience:

Is stall behavior from a particular entry in a data table, or does it "emerge" when calculations from multiple formulae using weight, lift, AoA etc are used?
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Offline wetrat

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« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2006, 02:47:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
the 190 A5 kicks the spit16s bellybutton in the general MA standards.
 :huh
yeah, you know what you're talking about..............
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Offline JB42

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« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2006, 03:01:35 PM »
Well i dont know the definition of conspiracy theory, heck i probably spelled it wrong, but I do know this:

A) Ta152 - Let's not even go there

B) HTC can't get the 109 flaps code right, but can remodel the 262 to fly tougher than it used to............hmmmmm

C) After numerous posts about the overmodel of the old Spit5, HTC correctly models it, then introduces the Spit8 and 16 and the Seafire III while taking out the G10 and putting in an undermodeled G14 and a K4 that is little more than a fast 109 to run away in.

D) Many historical documents point out the dominence of the A5, it out climbs, out accelerates, out dives and more agile than anything allied pre-1942 (giving up only continual turning radius to most allied planes). Tell me that's modelled accuratly.

E) While it's true there are several questionable FMs for a variety of planes, seems to me that while the LW FMs seem slanted to the undermodelled end of the spectrum, allied FMs seem to slant a bit more frequently to the overmodelled end.

F)DrDea is a tool (sorry, had to throw that in there :D )

again I'm not sure if its a conspiracy.................bu t it sure smells like one ;)
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Offline Charge

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« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2006, 03:19:15 PM »
"Is stall behavior from a particular entry in a data table, or does it "emerge" when calculations from multiple formulae using weight, lift, AoA etc are used?"

I think that is something that has to be "made" into code on every plane separately. The code just cannot be counting these things real time. It could if didn't have to run also graphics, sound and net code etc. AFAIK there are certain tables for different parameters and the code calculates the resulting behaviour and probably uses some approximation to make it all smooth and not too time consuming.

I would be nice to hear how it really happens in this game.

-C+
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Offline DrDea

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« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2006, 03:34:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB42

F)DrDea is a tool (sorry, had to throw that in there :D )
[/B]


 DOH!!!! Why you little...................:huh
The Flying Circus.Were just like you.Only prettier.

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