Hello Silat,
Originally posted by Silat
Ludrious examples Seagoon. A pregnant woman isnt a communicable disease Sea.
Sea your faith and beliefs are yours. Quit trying to make them law. My daughters body is her own. Until the baby takes a breath outside of my daughters body she is in charge..
Let's try to reason together.
You call me the one trying to make "my faith and beliefs" law, yet all of your responses to date (with the exception of the the clipped thread) have consisted of visceral emotive reactions where you simply attempt to pound the opposition with your own unsupported belief that abortion must be entirely unrestricted and that all people in the USA must be forced, by supreme court dictat to accept that. On the other hand, I have not been arguing for the return of the right to choose whether or not abortion should be legal to the states
from scripture. You were the one who raised the issue of the Biblical witness with the quote from the two paths site.
You accuse everyone who opposes abortion of being a religious fanatic, including a doctor who spoke from experience and never indicated what his religious beliefs were. Silat, the first time I heard extended arguments against abortion it was at the University of St. Andrews in a Moral Philosophy class from an atheist professor. He argued against abortion on the grounds of what he called the universal rights of man, and the need for the rights of the weak to be protected from the strong. His primary argument was drawn from Locke and Hume. He also argued from philosophical principles that the fetus was undeniably a human being, and that if human beings have any rights at all, then the most fundamental right must be the right to live. You on the other hand to date, have asserted that until that child takes a breath outside of a woman's body it is a non-person and she has absolute power over it. This means that up until the very moment of delivery when the last milimeter clears the birth canal, a baby is a non-person with no rights. Are rights then something arbitrarily granted by legal consensus? Do
preborn women have no rights?
As far as making my beliefs law. Actually, I'm entirely uninvolved in politics, I don't even have the right to vote in any country. The only place I discuss politics is at the dinner table and here frankly. I'm guessing that you are much more active in politics than I am. The contact our family has had with abortion (aside from one or two sermons that have addressed it) is via my wife who was a crisis pregnancy counselor for several years in D.C., from dealing with nearly identical procedures because three of our kids died in the womb (ID&E and D&C) and as I have had to counsel women grieving over past choices to abort their children, and that of course is something you seem supremely unmoved by, the fact that abortion psychologically devastates many women:
"A 2005 study added academic weight to anecdotal claims. University of Oslo researchers compared the mental distress of women who had miscarried with those who had voluntarily aborted their pregnancies. While women who miscarried suffered more initially, those who aborted carried lasting emotional scars. After five years, fewer than three in 100 women who had miscarried still experienced mental distress. But one in five post-abortive women still suffered mentally and emotionally and said they had to make an effort to avoid thinking about the event."Quote from:
What women want by Lynn Vincent
So I'm willing to discuss this, as long as we are actually discussing it, but that will require dialogue, not repeating bumper sticker slogans and accusing everyone of being a religious fanatic out to destroy ephemeral and penumbric "rights." For the record, I'm actually concerned about the rights of the 47 million or so people whose most fundamental right was nullified by nine men in 1973.
- SEAGOON
