Author Topic: Danish Newspaper Publishes Manifesto (Read 1200 times)

Seagoon · « **on:** March 02, 2006, 04:48:21 PM »

I know I'm probably going to get grief for posting this, but it's certainly worth noting. While I don't agree with every part of the Manifesto, it represents the efforts of 12 internationally prominent writers (including Salman Rushdie) to draw attention to what they believe to be the new* totalitarian global threat as they put it:

After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new totalitarian global threat: Islamism.

MANIFESTO: Together facing the new totalitarianism

- SEAGOON

* At almost 1400 years old, I'd hardly call the threat "new" but, eh.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2006, 06:43:12 PM »

I think the fact that some people here scrutinize everything you say because you are a preacher is asnine goon. I really do.

I really don't know anyone in the free world that couldn't get behind the very first statement

Quote

We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.

There's not much else written there that isn't too hard to get behind either. I read this a week ago but was too lazy to post it, thanks.

Octavius · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2006, 09:25:11 PM »

We plead for the universality of freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit may be exercised on all continents, against all abuses and all dogmas.

I can dig it.

Which part(s) do you disagree, Seagoon?

Gunthr · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2006, 10:32:46 PM »

oh boy, the fatwas are gonna be a-flyin...

Seagoon · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2006, 10:53:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Octavius
We plead for the universality of freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit may be exercised on all continents, against all abuses and all dogmas.

I can dig it.

Which part(s) do you disagree, Seagoon?

Hi Octavius,

Not much, I had to say that though so some of the guys on the board would be able to support it.

Actually, I'm ok with all the pronouncements except for the idea expressed at the end of the first paragraph that our salvation from Islamism will be found in secular values for all. The solution being proposed to the threat by humanists is predictably, humanism. I don't agree. If I did, I wouldn't be an evangelical Pastor.

- SEAGOON

Suave · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2006, 11:45:25 PM »

So you don't agree with the conclusion of the manifesto but you agree with the rest of it.

In your opinion what is the solution to islamism then ?

BTW how did you find out that the authors are all humanists and not deistic?

john9001 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2006, 11:52:08 PM »

i'll see your fatwas and raise you 2 jehads.

Nash · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2006, 12:00:05 AM »

Western fundamentalism vs Eastern fundamentalism is still fundamentalism.

Sane people: reject these cartoon warz.

Please.

Octavius · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2006, 12:11:55 AM »

are you serious? be critical of any dogmas regardless of continent... how can anyone disagree with that?

that is claiming zero side, zero dogmas, zero ignorance. learn both sides, learn both hypocrisies, choose whatever you will or none at all.

again, i dig.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2006, 12:15:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Octavius
are you serious? be critical of any dogmas regardless of continent... how can anyone disagree with that?

My dogma requires that I must vehemently disagree with you.

Seagoon · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2006, 12:29:42 AM »

Hi Suave,

Quote

Originally posted by Suave
So you don't agree with the conclusion of the manifesto but you agree with the rest of it.

In your opinion what is the solution to islamism then ?

BTW how did you find out that the authors are all humanists and not deistic?

You know to this day, I'm not quite sure why I answer these questions. I post something about a group of non-religious Europeans calling people to oppose Islamism, and which I am almost in full agreement with, and as usual within a few posts its all about how stupid orthodox Christianity (and my belief in it) is. It'd be quicker to just start a thread entitled "kick me."

Anyway, Suave, I agree with their assessment of the problem, I just happen to believe you aren't going to overcome Islam with the same secular humanism that European Muslims are rejecting. I strongly believe that the only thing that can pierce and overcome the darkness of Islam, is the light of the Gospel. The reason I am not ashamed to say that is for the same reason that Paul stated so long ago: "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes" I fully recognize that neither you nor the authors of the Manifesto would agree with that, I also know that many members of the BB can't see the difference between that statement and carrying a placard stating "Behead all who slander Islam" and flying aircraft into buildings, so there is no need to remind me.

I know the authors are mostly committed Secular Humanists, because I've read several of them, either in books or interviews, in particular Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, and Ibn Warraq. And for the others, their own descriptions give you enough information to figure out their religious persuasions for instance Director of the Worker-communist Party of Iran's International Relations; and 2005 winner of the National Secular Society's Secularist of the Year award. Most of them are left-wing and all are committed to secularism as a philosophy.

And Nash, how on earth are the authors of the Manifesto Western Fundamentalists???

- SEAGOON

Nash · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2006, 12:49:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Seagoon
And Nash, how on earth are the authors of the Manifesto Western Fundamentalists???

- SEAGOON

Well maybe they aren't, but you sure as hell are.

Let me give you an example:

"I strongly believe that the only thing that can pierce and overcome the darkness of Islam, is the light of the Gospel."

whereas THEY say:

"I strongly believe that the only thing that can pierce and overcome the darkness of the Gospel, is the light of Islam."

What exactly is the difference between y'all?

It's all about darkeness and peircing and war and end times with you guys.

Ya know what? That crap aint working for the "*******s" and it SURE as hell aint working for anyone here. So maybe it's high time that you back the eff out of international politics and start talking about peace and love et al, like yer supposed to, and quit pressuring brain dead leaders into stepping into quagmires based on your particular version of a particular book of a particular religeon.

Or whatever.

They are fundamentalists, and you are fundamentalists, and fundamentalists bring nuthin' but hurt.

Sandman · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2006, 12:52:04 AM »

So... time to end this silly war on terror and get to the real problem.

Islamism.

or

Fundamentalism.

Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in The Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus and I'd still have to bum rides off of people. - Ferris Bueller

Hangtime · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2006, 12:58:13 AM »

seagoons right... this is an eastern vs western religious dogma dillema that has the potential to erupt in to WWIII.

who coulda seen it coming?

:old rolleyes:

Sandman · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2006, 01:01:04 AM »

After a thousand years, one could have hoped that we would have got past the crusades.

Pity.