HiTech, couple of questions on collisions

[hubsonfire]

In another thread, I saw a few statements regarding collisions that struck me as almost outlandish.

First off, do you actually sustain damage if you collide with the debris from a dead plane? I was under the impression that while you'll hear the debris.wav play, you don't actually take damage from it, only from colliding with another play.

Do you always take damage in a collision? I seem to nearly always lose something in a collision which registers on my FE, and have survived "XXXX has collided with you" more times than I can count. I see 2 statements a lot, one being "the other guy who rammed me flies off intact", the other being "I ALWAYS DIE". I was under the impression that you took damage when you rammed, but didn't necessarily die (assuming in this case that you're not in a HO where all involved are firing). I was also under the impression that you didn't take damage when you were collided with, unless you were also fired upon. What's the actual setup?

Does connection speed really have a huge effect on who collides, excluding a HO mutual collision situation? With the exception of the last few days, my connection's been pretty stable, albeit a little slow, and I bet I've survived more collisions than I've died from by a huge margin. I'd venture that almost all of the collisions resulting in my death were me flying into drones, or actually getting shot, not just rammed/ramming.

Anyway, seeing another heated post on the subject got me wondering about the claims I see repeated over and over. Are they actually legitimate observations, or are the "facts" of collisions merely incorrect perceptions?

[Ouch]

My understanding (and all my experiences with it bear it out).  (BTW, I'm a programmer, so spelling doesn't count.)

"XXX Colided with you"  - His FE has regiestered a colision.  He takes damage. You do NOT take damage.

"You collided with XXX" - Your FE registered a collision.  You take some kind of damage, but it MAY OR MAY NOT register damage on your plane.  Your wing may be HURT, but not torn off.  So you may not get any visible damage even if you do collide.

If you see both, then what goes around, comes around.  :-)

Ouch out

[Guppy35]

I've had numerous occasions where the message is "XXXX has collided with you" and I've been the one going down.  The old 38G loses it's tail in every collsion

I had one the other night where I had shot up a Ki 84 He was slowing and I was closing fast.  I sparkled hits on his right wing and he then pulled left and I rammed his right wing.  I lost my wing and went down, while he kept driving.

It was all good fun, so not complaining.  HTC had a brand new 38G waiting for me, but it was interesting to have hit the Ki84 that hard with cannon and MGs and then driven through his wing, and he then got the kill on me due to the collision

[Krusty]

I believe HT has pointed out that sometimes when the other fellow collides with you, he's pointed at you and firing, so if he rams you, you won't take ram damage but he might shoot your wing off before he rams you.

[Kaw1000]

about The only time I collide with someone is on a HO........Dont HO and most of the time you will not collide......and yes I've been killed by falling Plane parts  or when I shoot a guys down and I run into thier parts!!

[OOZ662]

Well Guppy, what probably happened to you was suicide. You can test this even in the TA, if you want.

If you're inside (or extremely close to) an opponent's plane while firing, you will recieve damage from the blast radii of your own rounds. Stick your wing inside someone's plane and fire; you'll die. I'm guessing the combo of shooting someone and just missing the ram will give the other guy the collide, he'll die, but the blast of your rounds will take a chunk off your aircraft.

[Airscrew]

I'll pitch in my 2 cents, I'm on cable, ping rates from 15 to 60 depending on time of day

Hub said
First off, do you actually sustain damage if you collide with the debris from a dead plane? I was under the impression that while you'll hear the debris.wav play, you don't actually take damage from it, only from colliding with another play.

my experience is yes you can get damage and even die if you collide with debris.  In AH1,  me in 109G10, enemy B-17.   B-17s were low on bombing pass, I came in fast from low 5o'clock.   fired, several hits, plane breaks in to pieces,  left wing flies in the air and directly in front of me.  I hit the wing, I get tore up, hit the ground and trees,  B-17 pilot get the kill.

In AH2, I have flown offline practicing deflection shooting, got too close like 100,  plane blows up and sometimes I get damage, usually gear or flaps. I have no expericence with this online in the MA or AvA.

Ouch said
"XXX Colided with you" - His FE has regiestered a colision. He takes damage. You do NOT take damage.

"You collided with XXX" - Your FE registered a collision. You take some kind of damage, but it MAY OR MAY NOT register damage on your plane. Your wing may be HURT, but not torn off. So you may not get any visible damage even if you do collide.

My experience with this has been
XXX Colided with you -  varies, sometimes I get damage and sometimes I dont.

You collided with XXX - I always get damage, sometimes a wing, sometimes an elevator, sometime engine/prop dead.

Guppy said
I had one the other night where I had shot up a Ki 84 He was slowing and I was closing fast. I sparkled hits on his right wing and he then pulled left and I rammed his right wing. I lost my wing and went down, while he kept driving.

three examples

Me La7, enemy B24's.   I make a pass from his 9oclock, slightly beneath him.  I lead and start firing at the wing and fuselage intending to break up and right during the pass, i turn and fly right into and through lead plane on formation.  No collision message, no sound, no damage.

Me Niki, enemy Hurricane.  Vultch light is lit.  Hurri is turning to the right and slow.  I fire and get several strikes on Hurri, wing, fuselage.  Hurri pulls straight up into the path of my plane at about d100, I continue firing as I try to get out of the way, hoping he'll explode before I hit him.  Wrong, I die, I get collision message, he gets kill.

Me in 163,  enemy Lancs.   I miss judge closure speed while coming up from below, fire, hit plane, realized my mistake, again I hope the plane will pop before I hit him,  and wrong again.  Boom I die, I get collision message, he lives and gets kill.

[Lazerr]

Well, if two planes collide in the air, BOTH of them should take damage, even if I plane doesn't see it, its total horsecrap.  

Why should someones connection speed determine if the other guy goes down?

IF there is a collision, it should simply mean both planes take damage.  Its gettin pretty annoying to have your plane ripped in half due to a ram, and the other guy flys off unscaved.  It just flat out doesn't make sense.  If 1 FE sees a collision, then I believe both planes should suffer the damage.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by OOZ662
Well Guppy, what probably happened to you was suicide. You can test this even in the TA, if you want.

If you're inside (or extremely close to) an opponent's plane while firing, you will recieve damage from the blast radii of your own rounds. Stick your wing inside someone's plane and fire; you'll die. I'm guessing the combo of shooting someone and just missing the ram will give the other guy the collide, he'll die, but the blast of your rounds will take a chunk off your aircraft.

Any time I fly is potential 'suicide' for me so that makes sense

[hitech]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
In another thread, I saw a few statements regarding collisions that struck me as almost outlandish.

First off, do you actually sustain damage if you collide with the debris from a dead plane? I was under the impression that while you'll hear the debris.wav play, you don't actually take damage from it, only from colliding with another play.

You do not take damage from debri, but it does make a sound.
 

Do you always take damage in a collision? I seem to nearly always lose something in a collision which registers on my FE, and have survived "XXXX has collided with you" more times than I can count. I see 2 statements a lot, one being "the other guy who rammed me flies off intact", the other being "I ALWAYS DIE". I was under the impression that you took damage when you rammed, but didn't necessarily die (assuming in this case that you're not in a HO where all involved are firing). I was also under the impression that you didn't take damage when you were collided with, unless you were also fired upon. What's the actual setup?

Yes you always take damage when you see the message "You have collided" What takes damage is dependent on what part of you plane collides.

And if you take damage on a head on with out seeing that message it means you were shot.

Does connection speed really have a huge effect on who collides, excluding a HO mutual collision situation? With the exception of the last few days, my connection's been pretty stable, albeit a little slow, and I bet I've survived more collisions than I've died from by a huge margin. I'd venture that almost all of the collisions resulting in my death were me flying into drones, or actually getting shot, not just rammed/ramming.

Connection speed has no bearing on who collides. What you see is what happens to your collision.

 

Anyway, seeing another heated post on the subject got me wondering about the claims I see repeated over and over. Are they actually legitimate observations, or are the "facts" of collisions merely incorrect perceptions?

And make no mistake even thow I state this clearly people will still claim otherwise do to there "incorrect perceptions".

The only detail in the collision system which isn't 100% as I want to be is.
It is posible for a piece of your wing to slice threw a thin part of the other plane, and you would not sustain damage nore would you get a "You have collided message"


HiTech

[hitech]

Lazzer picture it like this.

Both planes are towing target drones,What you shoot at and collide with is the other guys target drone and not the tow plane. HE is shooting and can collide with your target drone not you.

So what you are asking for is, if you collide with the other guys target drone, and he misses yours, You still wish him dead, even thow he clearly avoided your target drone. Or to put it the other way around, you avoided the target drone, but he collied with yours. And you wish the system would kill you also, even thow you missed the target drone.

Now in this example lag is just the length of the tow line.


HiTech

[rabbidrabbit]

well illustrated Ht,thanks.

[Clifra Jones]

I have seen this explained so many times and people still don't get it. I'm not sure if they will understand HTs latest explanation either.

Laser, let me ask you this. You perform a close merge with an enemy, you clearly miss him by 20-30 yards, you see the message "{gameid} has collided with you" and find yourself in the tower. Tell me how PO'd you would be at that moment? Because that is exactly what you are asking for.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by Clifra Jones
I have seen this explained so many times and people still don't get it. I'm not sure if they will understand HTs latest explanation either.

Laser, let me ask you this. You perform a close merge with an enemy, you clearly miss him by 20-30 yards, you see the message "{gameid} has collided with you" and find yourself in the tower. Tell me how PO'd you would be at that moment? Because that is exactly what you are asking for.

Exactly.

I was flying some B-24's the other day when this LA7 comes crawling up my 6.  I jump in the tail gun and start to line up him.  By this time he is 400 off my six and firing.  Before I can get a bead on him he pulls up and to his left.  At this time he is 200 away from me.  Then BOOM! he's gone.  I get the "XXXXX has collided with you".
Now, I would be really pissed if I blew up as well...from my perspective he did not run into me.
Is this what you want Laser?

[F4J]

Originally posted by Donzo
Exactly.

I was flying some B-24's the other day when this LA7 comes crawling up my 6.  I jump in the tail gun and start to line up him.  By this time he is 400 off my six and firing.  Before I can get a bead on him he pulls up and to his left.  At this time he is 200 away from me.  Then BOOM! he's gone.  I get the "XXXXX has collided with you".
Now, I would be really pissed if I blew up as well...from my perspective he did not run into me.
Is this what you want Laser?

I find that bomber formations are rammed from behind frequently now, and if I don't lose the bomber, I don't feel too bad about it. If the collider dies, so much the better. I frequently lose the bomber, but I believe it's because he's been gunning me right up to the collision. I try to gun him right up to the collision also. As long as both parties are shooting guns at each other, I don't think you can make intelligent analysis of who should have died in the collision.

One thing I'd like to see added to the collision model is, when someone collides with a tree, it should go away.