Real life pilots and Airline Industry folks: Let them know!

[Ripsnort]

Oct.11th, the Senate, via a unanimous consent vote, adopted the Bob Smith (R-NH)/Frank Murkowski (R-AK) amendment to allow airline pilots to carry firearms.  The amendment was also co-sponsored by Senators Mike Enzi(R-WY) and Conrad Burns (R-MT).

The bill now goes to the House. After that, it will probably go to a House-Senate conference to work out the details.

BUT THE BATTLE IS NOT OVER!

This week, the House will take up its version of the Aviation Security Bill.  A number of congressmen are considering offering amendments to arm pilots, but they must first secure the approval of the House leadership and the House Rules Committee in order to offer any amendment.

ACTION:  Please contact House Speaker Dennis Hastert, House Republican Leader Dick Armey, and House Republican Whip Tom DeLay and demand that they allow the House to vote on the armed pilots amendment in connection with the Aviation Security Bill.

Contact Info:
> Rep. Dennis Hastert
> E-mail: dhastert@mail.house.gov
> Phone:  202-225-2976
> Fax:    202-225-0697

> Rep. Dick Armey
> No Public E-mail
> Phone:  202-225-7772
> Fax:    202-226-8100

> Rep. Tom DeLay
> No Public E-mail
> Phone:  202-225-5951
> Fax:    202-225-5241

 ----- Pre-written message for those that are "word challenged"-----

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Dear Representative __________:

When the Aviation Security Act comes before the House, I hope you will use your leadership position to allow amendments to the bill that would let pilots be armed.

There are plenty of aviation engineers who agree that bullet holes will not cause a massive depressurization in a plane.If depressurization was truly a concern,then why are we even considering putting air marshals on planes?  Their bullets will be no different from the ones being used by the pilots.  But more to the point, there is no way we can get an air marshal on all 35,000 daily flights.

So the only way to deter these terrorists is to make sure that our last line of defense -- the pilots -- can protect the plane. Reinforcing the cockpit doors is also a good idea, but it's not a panacea. Are we to assume that on a long trip the door will NEVER be opened? That pilots will NEVER take a bathroom break? That there is no one among the flight crew who will ever have the keys or security codes to open the door?

Reinforcing the cockpit doors can help. But the only way to stop terrorism on board aircraft is to let these villains know in advance that, if they ever try to invade the cockpit, they'll be sorry.

Please support language that will allow pilots to be armed, and thus, will enable them to protect the lives of their crew members and passengers.

Thank you.
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If you are a pilot, or work in the aerospace industry, please let GOA know by dropping an e-mail to goamail@gunowners.org at your convenience.

More info here: http://www.gunowners.org/ean.htm

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

[Eagler]

Israeli pilots are not armed. If you have armed marshalls on board why do the pilots need to be armed?

Secure the cockpit, provide the air police - mandate it as the airlines do not want to cut into their profits unless forced to do so - & screen the hell out the passengers & ALL of their luggage while bomb proofing the luggage compartments. Let the pilots concentrate on flying, their job. In other words why re-invent the wheel when Israel has a system for its airlines that has worked for years..use it.

[Ripsnort]

Eagler, in Israel, you don't have a flight departure time per se, you have a flight date.  You show up at the airport, and your flight might leave at 8am or 8pm.  Would you prefer that method of security?    That's primary reason for their success.

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Eagler, in Israel, you don't have a flight departure time per se, you have a flight date.  You show up at the airport, and your flight might leave at 8am or 8pm.  Would you prefer that method of security?      That's primary reason for their success.

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

whatever it takes to insure safety. all I know is their system works. I think our efforts should be in requiring the airlines/airports to get off their arse and do something about their own security. Seems to me they have been excessively slack in their efforts up to date - hiring Burger King rejects to scan carry on luggage, etc..
They only seem to react when forced (after the fact following the latest disaster), never taking the inititative concerning OUR safety, more concerned with THEIR profit margin.

[Ripsnort]

Imagine 35,000 daily domestic flights, with no predetermined flight departure or arrival time other than a day of the week.

I'm for all security measures (except for the Israeli method of departure/arrival times).  Arm the pilots, have Air Marshalls, secure doors, etc. etc.

[SOB]

I still think arming pilots is a horrible idea.  Unless you now want to make it part of a pilot's required skills to be able to handle a gun and be willing to use it when the need arises.


SOB

[popeye]

Pilots would be armed and trained on a volunteer basis.

[Tac]

I agree on arming pilots AND having air marshalls AND reinforcing the doors AND I would add, modify the cockpits to give the pilots their own bathroom and a small food station so as to make the cockpit completely sealed off from the airplane.

Think about it folks, you are trusting those guys with your life every time you fly, you think giving them a gun is going to be any different?

[Boroda]

In USSR/Russia civil flight crews are always armed.

In late-80s/early-90s we had an epidemy of plane hijaking by some illiterates who wanted to emigrate at any cost.

I don't know is it a real story or a joke. One "airship commander" had his plane hijaked 3 times, the "bandits" were arrested at the arrival and returned back to Soviet side. The guy became really nervous about that stupids. So, when a stewardess came to the cockpit and said there is a guy who says he has a bomb and needs to fly to South Africa, the pilot simply took his Makarov, loaded it and asked a stewardess to show the hijaker. They came into the salon smiling, she pointed at the "bandit" and the pilot, still smiling, shot him in his head. Then he looked around, and asked othe passangers: "Annyone else wants to go to South Africa?"... He was sent to psyhological rehabilitation for a few weeks before he was returned to flight duty...

[Ripsnort]

ROTFLOL! Boroda, don't know if that was true or urban legend, but I LIKE IT!~

[Greese]

What about those special bullets the press has been touting lately?  The ones that disintegrate when they hit a hard surface?

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Greese:
What about those special bullets the press has been touting lately?  The ones that disintegrate when they hit a hard surface?

well lets hope they aim for the heart then as you know their heads are calloused from too much turban wearing ...

[Toad]

USA Today 10/01/2001: "Still, it is not clear that El Al's security can be duplicated. El Al's flight load — about 40 flights a day to about 51 destinations — is minuscule compared with any major American airline."

If you instituted El Al security across the US, the system basically would not function.

We're doing barely increased security from what we had before Sept. 11 right now. The lines are 2-3 hours long at the major airports.

Go to the length that EL AL does and you can probably double the length of time we're seeing now, IE: arrive at the airport 6 hours before your two hour flight. Maybe more; most US majors are still operating around 2000 flights a day.

End of story. Who would fly?

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Toad:

End of story. Who would fly?

who will fly if the terrorist blow a 767 out of the sky over the continental US? more needs to be done by the airlines with FAA hounding them. Some things are being done but at what seems to be a snails pace. Arming pilots will do zero to stop the next attack. I can see it now, the pilot aka Clint Eastwood comes barrelling out of the cockpit into 1st class where Oma raghead has the stewardess by the throat with his box cutter. Clint draws his 357 magnum while yelling "Go ahead punk, make my day". Oh yeah, that'll work...
Personally, if trained properly I'm not against the pilots being armed but would not feel any safer knowing he had a gun.
I would feel safer knowing that ALL luggage had been screened, the luggage compartment was constructed of the explosion absorbing/proof material, anyone touching the aircraft (from the food servers to the maintance crews) has been cleared through a screening process & that the four incredible hulks stationed around the plane were experts in hand to hand combat and were carrying.

[Eagler]

they can start with little things like this:
===========================================
More Airport Security Problems at Dulles
Government investigators say seven of 20 departure gate screeners at Dulles airport have been reassigned for failing written exams.
   
The investigators tested the screeners during a probe at Dulles and 13 other airports. Teams from the Office of Inspector General and FAA (news - web sites) are looking to see whether background checks required of security employees were done.
   
A screener must receive 12 hours of training, pass a written test and be retested every year.

Last month, the inspector general's office began investigating whether undocumented workers were working illegally at Dulles checkpoints. Its report says more than 80 percent of screeners and baggage handlers are "not" U.S. citizens.
   
Federal law states that only American citizens or holders of green cards or work permits can work at security checkpoints.

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80% ?! the FAA should have someones bellybutton for that.