Author Topic: Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?  (Read 1184 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2006, 07:38:22 AM »
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The fact is that Bose is aimed towards PA systems and the products reflect that on design ideology. They are designed to produce a pleasant overall sound on a large area without even trying to get Hifi or God forbid, High-End.

This design ideology works great in large crowds, noisy / unacustical enviroments such as cars etc. But for an enthusiast wanting the best sound reproduction they simply have too many design compromises.

Bose doesn't suck, it's just not designed for enthusiasts.


LOL I know and have known alot of "enthusiasts" that would wholeheartedly dissagree with you.

But its been my experiance that it all comes down to personal prefrence.
and what type of room you are putting them in.

Now I myself am not quite in the enthusiast catagory but I do know that with the exception of that new Bose radio (which to me sounds pretty good but not GREAT)
Bose sounds better then most of the other stuff out there.

But that may be a Bias opinion as I was raised with Bose.
My Father who was an enthusiast bought a pair of the original Bose 901 series which I now have and still sound fantastic (as of two years ago )sitting in my attic.
Oh they are sitting in my attic because after 30+ years they are too ugly as the fabric on the covering is worn, stained and in need of replacement and require too much space to have sitting in my livingrooom.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 07:47:53 AM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2006, 07:40:34 AM »
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Originally posted by Furball
thank you for your input everyone.

but i dont want to hear "bose sucks! buy something else!" i was asking on how best to set them up.

if i dont like them (which i highly doubt) they will be going on ebay.


My sister in law has a set, and knowing my brother in law they probably arent set up correctly.
That being said
 You'll like them
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Offline Seraphim

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2006, 07:48:37 AM »
Yes, the main thing is setting them up correctly; Which is probably why many don't like their sound. Ive never used their dedicated control unit, Ive always used mine with a seperate receiver, so i can adjust the EQ settings and volume for each speaker independently. It makes a world of difference.
Especially with the 901's, they have a lot of midrange naturally, and have to be cut a bit, and the low end I still added a powered bass module for them. But oh, are they sweet.

Offline Curval

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2006, 08:13:19 AM »
Are these computer speakers?

For the audiophiles...what is your take on Klipsch 5.1?
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2006, 08:15:32 AM »
True Hifi systems lack tone control completely. If you need to use an EQ you're using a compromised system. :D
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Offline phookat

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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2006, 10:03:23 AM »
MrRipley-- I'd have to disagree on that last.  The room can have a large impact on frequency response, and no speaker is flat outside an anechoic chamber.  An EQ may be necessary to correct that.

As far as the Bose debate... they're fine for some tracks and suck for others. That's the problem with speakers that have gaps in the freq response...it's not just a graph on paper.  If you want speakers that sound good with everything, you want to get something with a relatively flat FR.  Anyway, I guess that's not in the cards for this thread.

Curval-- I've heard the Klipsh, wasn't too impressed.  Horns in general suck IMO because they tend to be peaky in the FR.  Horns were originially made as a method of amplifying sound, but these days there are much better ways of doing that (for home application, anyway).  The salesman was saying things like "the klipsch has a 'live' sound", which I thought was a bunch of baloney.

Martin Logan electrostats sound awesome, but *only* if you are sitting in the sweet spot right in front of them.  They beam terribly...so if you are not in the sweet spot, you will be missing a lot of the treble.

Offline Goth

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2006, 10:04:51 AM »
Furbie I was gonna post yesterday when I first saw this thread, but decided I had no real input since you had already bought the Bose and were looking for setup suggestions.

I'm not gonna put down Bose, but I sure love the suggestion Karaya gave me about the Defintives. Chances are high that my amatuer ears could not really distinguish too much difference between the 2 sets (maybe), and I truely think it all boils down to personal preference. I went with Karaya's opinion because I respected the fact that he knew more than I did, and given what was in the area and in my price range he made an excellent suggestion.

Oh yeah, took me about a week of experimentation to figure out what sounded best and readjusting the speakers tones and volume. Have fun with your Bose, once you get comfortable with the setup it will be enjoyable

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2006, 11:01:39 AM »
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I'd have to disagree on that last. The room can have a large impact on frequency response, and no speaker is flat outside an anechoic chamber. An EQ may be necessary to correct that.


Sorry but you can't correct room response with an EQ. Only way to do that is to use highly directional speakers such as electrostatic panels (Martin Logan, Innersound) or just magnetotstatic (Magnepan) or even horn loading (Acapella).

With enough directivity, good location of speakers and modified room acoustics, you get the best tonal results. Without having to resort to compromises as EQ is. The EQ only degrades the direct sound in effort of correcting room reflections which it fails to do regardless.

Directivity / acoustics produce clear path for direct sound which will take you _inside_ the soundstage of the recording. The 'beaming' you're talking about is a necessity for good reproduction of space.
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Offline xrtoronto

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2006, 12:02:15 PM »
If you want speakers...buy speakers:

here

Offline phookat

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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2006, 12:19:06 PM »
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
With enough directivity, good location of speakers and modified room acoustics, you get the best tonal results. Without having to resort to compromises as EQ is. The EQ only degrades the direct sound in effort of correcting room reflections which it fails to do regardless.


No, it doesn't fail.  It isn't perfect either, but it helps.  Direct beaming is a luxury that you don't have, if you want more than one person to be listening to the sound (or if you don't want to convert your living room into a foam-padded sound chamber).

Offline Curval

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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2006, 12:23:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by phookat
Curval-- I've heard the Klipsh, wasn't too impressed.  Horns in general suck IMO because they tend to be peaky in the FR.  Horns were originially made as a method of amplifying sound, but these days there are much better ways of doing that (for home application, anyway).  The salesman was saying things like "the klipsch has a 'live' sound", which I thought was a bunch of baloney.


What do you mean by horns?
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Offline Skuzzy

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2006, 12:37:27 PM »
A good EQ does not degrade anything (unless the user has no idea how to use the tool).  Any good studio uses multiple EQ's for various reasons.

An EQ in combination with a good DSP can help restore the sound to what it was supposed to sound like when it was recorded, for various room configurations.  In other words, the sound reaching your ears is the sound the engineer wanted you to hear.  This can only be done, in a typical living room, by altering/attenuating the bands of frequencies which are being altered/absorbed/reflected by the various materials in the room.

You are not going to stop reflections/distortions from ocurring in a typical room no matter how focused the sound is from a speaker.  A good surround sound speaker has near flat projection in the horizontal plane and a wide projection in the vertical plane.  This type of design helps to remove many problems associated with the typical room design/layout.

Unless a lot of money has been spent to correctly configure the room's acoustics, you are pretty much stuck with other forms of altering the sound to try and get what your hear to be what was intended to be heard.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Anyone use Bose Acoustimass speakers?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2006, 12:51:05 PM »
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Originally posted by phookat
No, it doesn't fail.  It isn't perfect either, but it helps.  Direct beaming is a luxury that you don't have, if you want more than one person to be listening to the sound (or if you don't want to convert your living room into a foam-padded sound chamber).


It doesn't fail? Let's examine the basics of sound dispersion, early reflections and directivity in a typical room.

A typical loudspeaker radiates 360 degrees on lower spectrum with gradually raising directivity towards higher frequencies. The directivity is dictated by the physical size of the frontplate of the speaker as well as the size of the actual elements. The larger the element the lower frequency 'beaming' will occur. This means that a 1" tweeter has highly directional properties above 5-8 khz with steadily growing radiation field under that.

A typical two-way loudspeaker has a mid-bass of 6.5". A midbass of that size on the other hand is highly directional in the top range of the crossover frequency. This mismatch is one of the toughest problems in the simple two-way loudspeaker design. The mismatch not only affects off-axis sound quality but also creates bumps&gaps to the total power spectrum of the speaker (meaning the overall amount of sound per frequency). This mismatch is sometimes dealt with by using a smaller midrange cone or by increasing the lower spectrum directivity by a directional horn. An extreme example would be Amphion which extends the vocal range of its 2" tweeter all the way down to 800hz by using a huge 8" directional horn together with a Seas magnesium alloy 8" mid-bass.

A typical non-directional speakers sound is completely dominated by the power spectrum with only minimal amount of direct radiation involved. This means that when a speaker radiates sound, not only the direct and pure sound is broadcasted to the listener but also the first, second etc. radiations from walls, floor and the ceiling are bouncing about in the room and catching also the listening position. To make matters worse, the time delay between the direct sound and the reflected sound causes interference which human ear picks up like a comb filter. The result is an extremely distorted high frequency pickup in listening position.

When you look at an EQ and what it does (alter the direct sound output) you quickly see that an EQ is completely powerless in its presumed task of correcting room alterations. At most it can work in the bass regions where standing waves produce bumps and lows every octet in conjunction with the size of the room. A room width, height or lenght will cause bass interference with each matching quarter of frequency. 20hz sounds have a wavelenght of 17 meters so  a room with 4,25 meters dimensions will cause that frequency to cancel out in the middle of the room and double in the corners of the room.

Even with this the EQ can't do much else except increase or decrease the overall amount of sound produced - the actual reasons and effects of the cancellation are not effected at all. The reason why EQ:s are used in studios is that they are used to shape the overall tone of the recording and microphone response alignment. They do not and can not fix anything outside the direct recorded sound i.e. reproduced sound from a speaker.

Planar speakers then again work around this problem by having a huge radiating surface (remember the surface/directivity equation) combined to a dipole operating method. A dipole speaker has no box so the front and back radiation can travel freely around the speaker. Since front and back radiations are at opposite phases, full cancellation on the side of the speaker happens even at bass frequencies. The result is a radiation field roughly the shape of figure 8 meaning the speaker will radiate sound mostly to back and front of the speaker.

This means that a planar speaker will have considerably less effects from all first radiations, the difference is especially big on floor radiation which typically creates most of the problems. And that my friend, is the key to having high quality sound reproduction in a room without 100" paddings on the walls. :aok
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 12:56:10 PM by MrRiplEy[H] »
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Offline Seraphim

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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2006, 12:59:11 PM »
From my experience, it's the reflections which can define a sound. Anywhere you go, any natural sound reflects off of something.
Ive been using speakers & EQ's since my early teens, and was able to get even a crappy speaker to at least sound decent. Ive also never heard any system with no tone control sound good, unless it was in a milion dollar sound proof studio. Since noone (at least noone I know) can afford that, EQ's help shape the sound to what it supposed to sound like (like skuzzy mentioned). Every single studio Ive been in, seen, or heard of uses EQ's, even if it's just slight, for main recording & mastering, to get the sounds to mix well together, instead of just throwin them together and makin mud.
Using Bose's speakers helps spread the sound to sound more natural for several people in a room to enjoy, unlike directional speakers where you have to sit right in front of them and not move to get a good sound.

Offline Skuzzy

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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2006, 01:03:58 PM »
You made some assumptions about speaker design which leave out newer designs which do propagate like an oval cone, with the wider part of the cone being the in the horizontal plane.

Also, low frequency energy dissipates quickly, versus high frequencies which can carry far further.  Multiple reflections of low frequencies are not likely in most rooms, but not so for high frequencies.

Of course, this is also assuming a relatively low power output of the typical home theatre amplifier.

Where an EQ helps, on its own, is where speakers are not placed exactly the same distance from source.  Or the center of your room is not the center alignment point for the speakers.

Using a good DSP with an EQ, you can correct for phase alignment issues with the sound (these are manifested by feeling pressure in the ear, but not really hearing what is causing it; the overall effect is muddy sound in various frequency bands).
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
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