Author Topic: Christians and end times- Are they here? (Read 4809 times)

Toad · « **Reply #150 on:** March 28, 2006, 10:24:34 PM »

Then you'd probably be concerned about Paine Wingate.

SirLoin · « **Reply #151 on:** March 29, 2006, 05:03:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
What you're saying and I'm acknowledging is that your "Christian" mantra is no different than any other special interest group. No more or no less dangerous to your freedom than Mother's Against Drunk Driving, the Gay/Lesbian Alliance, the NRA, Moveon.org, etc., etc., etc..

They are all the same....special interests groups.

The Gay/Lesbian movement is not a special interest group...They are fighting to get equal rights..ie..marriage,adoption,same sex benifits etc(and equal treatment in the eyes of the law)

Why is it legal for a M/F to have oral/anal sex but for same sex consenting adults,you get thrown in jail in four states?

It's like saying the equal rights movement in the 50'/60's was just a special interest group for blacks.

Debonair · « **Reply #152 on:** March 29, 2006, 05:08:14 AM »

Is it punishment?
I though prison is just some sort of queer fantasy camp.

SirLoin · « **Reply #153 on:** March 29, 2006, 06:34:24 AM »

Ain't it ironic that the freedom spouters are largely the same people who would deny his countryman the same rights afforded to him.

Toad · « **Reply #154 on:** March 29, 2006, 08:05:24 AM »

^ You appear to have missed the gist of the thread.

lazs2 · « **Reply #155 on:** March 29, 2006, 08:06:42 AM »

Ok chair... you gave sodomy laws as the one reason why you fear christians and have to be vigilant against them.

Firat of all... as toad points out... they should be challenged if they are unconstitutional but...

You need to answer some questions if sodomy laws are your example.... first.... When was the last sodomy law passed? what year? Which of the sodomy laws passed was passed soley by christians? and.... if you took a poll of the people living at the time of the sodomy law being passed....

Would it have been a popular law or one that had only the backing of christians?

See.... times change... they are changing... I can't think of any modern sodomy laws. I also believe that when sodomy laws were passed there were very few people in the area that would have objected.

I personly believe that they are not constitutional and that they are none of governments business.... religions are free to make any internal laws they like however.

lazs

Chairboy · « **Reply #156 on:** March 29, 2006, 10:08:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I personly believe that they are not constitutional and that they are none of governments business.... religions are free to make any internal laws they like however.

lazs

You and I agree on this, why would any of the rest of the post matter? It's none of their business, but religious interest groups MAKE it their business and use government to push their agenda. As that link I sent showed, these laws are still being enforced.

Also, to the poster that asked why heterosexuals could perform 'sodomy' but gays couldn't? The laws apply to the heterosexuals too. There are plenty of places where oral sex is illegal in this country, but any enforcement is one sided.

Gunthr · « **Reply #157 on:** March 29, 2006, 10:45:10 AM »

Quote

There are plenty of places where oral sex is illegal in this country, but any enforcement is one sided.

What do you mean by "one-sided" enforcement, Chairboy?

Chairboy · « **Reply #158 on:** March 29, 2006, 12:26:06 PM »

I'm pretty sure that the homosexuals are arrested more often than the heterosexuals, but I can't prove it. I might be wrong, but when I read articles like the one I linked to about people being arrested for performing sodomy (which oral sex is part of) in private, it's usually the gays.

Since I can't provide numbers to support that, I'll retract that sentence to be on the safe side. At this point, I guess I'm just sharing my perception. Whether it's accurate or not, I can't tell.

Seagoon · « **Reply #159 on:** March 29, 2006, 12:33:45 PM »

Hi Chair,

Way back before the thread turned into being about Christian bogeymen out to take over the government and force everyone to obey the Ten Commandments and other similarly horrible things (actually, if you checked out my post on page one, I guessed that was what the thread would eventually turn into and tried to deal with the issue of real political influence vs. mythical threats) you essentially asked about my view of eschatology, and did I think it was the end times.

As far as end times madness is concerned, I'm probably going to end up dissapointing you as I'm Amillennial in my eschatology which means that I believe that we have been in what Christ called "the last days" since his advent and that all that remains is His return which can happen at any moment (and only God knows when). And that the millennium was a figurative way of speaking of the period between His ascension and His return. As an Amillenialist I believe that the struggle between good and evil will continue until that return, that the gospel will continue to be preached, but that there will be no "golden age" prior to that, but that Christ and his Apostles taught us the following things in scripture:

1. Jesus will return
2. The dead will be raised
3. Heaven and earth as we know them will be consumed
4. A new heavens and a new earth will be created
5. A great judgement will be held
6. The last of the ages will begin, which will continue for eternity

For a brief summary of what these things entail: The End of the World

and how they work out in history: Keeping Watch

Anyway, the following links may be of help to those wondering what Christianity has historically taught about "the end of the world"

For a brief comparison of the 4 major Christian views of the end times you might want to look at this page: Millennial Views

Not as "sexy" as the prevailing modern dispensational view that most American Evangelicals hold to (its the view of the "Left Behind" novels for instance). But then again Dispensationalism has only really been around since the 1800s.

Hey but one of the many benefits of being boring is that I'm not always misidentifying the antichrist or setting dates that don't come to pass like Hal Lindsey and company...

- SEAGOON

bozon · « **Reply #160 on:** March 29, 2006, 12:34:21 PM »

Quote

There are plenty of places where oral sex is illegal in this country

OK, let me get this straight.
In america there are written laws about where I can or cannot stick my d!

Why does the state care if two adults like to sodomize each other? And now you also have the three strikes law. If I stick it 3 times into the wrong hole I might get life.

Next time I'm in the US I must remember to be careful of where I point my thingy.

Bozon

Chairboy · « **Reply #161 on:** March 29, 2006, 12:38:28 PM »

Good points.

Thanks, Seagoon! Yours was the first straight answer to my question, and I appreciate your insights.

Even though I'm an atheist, I think I share your feelings regarding our current status as a world in trouble, except in a non-theological way. It certainly does feel like everything is winding up to some sort of explosion.

Of course, I bet every generation before us has thought the same thing.

Thanks again,

Ben

wrag · « **Reply #162 on:** March 29, 2006, 12:59:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
Whoa, calm down. No need to lose your temper. I've been calm this whole time, and I'd like you to do it too. Remember, something like 7% of communication is the words themselves in face to face conversation, so written communication can be fraught with peril. There's no body language, no tone of voice, etc etc.

No temper invovled. Just wanted to be sure you read what was typed.

Although I'm coming to believe nothing anyone has to say/type is going to make a bit of difference.

I've also come to believe that when something is said/typed no real effort is made by you to comprehend, all the effort made by yourself is to try and twist whatever is said the direction you wish in order to demanize.

That is what I've come to believe after reading your post.

I have NO PROBLEM with you desire or belief, my problem is with your approach or technique you use.

I'm NOT argueing for atheist or theist.

wrag · « **Reply #163 on:** March 29, 2006, 01:07:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
In that case, please provide evidence for your claim. If I attacked anyone in this thread, I'd like to know so I can make amends!

If you can't provide an example, then I guess you made a claim that's not supportable by facts. The polite thing to do in such a situation is to retract it.

Thanks!

Twisting things here????

Who said you are attacking an individual? Not me!

You seem to be afraid of christians.

wrag · « **Reply #164 on:** March 29, 2006, 01:14:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
(a bunch of exclamation points and text snipped for clarity)
Here's an example:
http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/texas/txnews16.htm

I ask you this. Are those laws being enforced? Has the SC upheld?

I don't think so.