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Author Topic: Christians and end times- Are they here?  (Read 3487 times)

Offline Toad

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Christians and end times- Are they here?
« Reply #105 on: March 27, 2006, 10:34:02 PM »
On February 20, 1933, Congress proposed the 21st Amendment to the Constitution repealing the 18th Amendment. On December 5, Utah became the thirty-sixth state to vote for ratification assuring acceptance of the 21st Amendment.

It wasn't found unconstitutional by the SC.

Try again.  ;)
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Chairboy

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Christians and end times- Are they here?
« Reply #106 on: March 27, 2006, 10:36:17 PM »
Walks like unconstitutional, quacks like it too.

The 21st censured the 18th, seems pretty clear, but if that makes ya sleep better at night...  :D
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #107 on: March 27, 2006, 10:49:17 PM »
I'm sorry sir but you're creating things that are not there.

I guess it seems unconstitutional to YOU because, well, .... that's the way you wish it had been but wasn't.

Quote
U.S. Constitution: Twenty-First Amendment
Twenty-First Amendment - Repeal of the Eighteenth Amendment


Amendment Text | Annotations  
Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Section 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.

Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by conventions in the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress. Effect of Repeal



Where is the censure of the 18th in the text of the 21st?

Can you cite ANY SC cases that dealt with the constitutionality of the 18th? Was the 18th EVER challenged at the SC level?

I don't believe you can.

That said, I doubt you can find any support for your notion that the 18th was even remotely unconstitutional as written amongst experts on constitutional law.

I challenge you to do so.

I believe you are alone in your assessment.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Chairboy

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Christians and end times- Are they here?
« Reply #108 on: March 27, 2006, 11:12:40 PM »
Well, I walked into that trap.  You tried to make this about christian laws being called unconstitutional, and I let you do it, my bad.  Amateur mistake, I gotta be more watchful.

My original assertion stands, that there are influential christian groups working to legislate biblically, and I think that's counter to the intentions of the founders of our great nation.
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #109 on: March 27, 2006, 11:15:05 PM »
...and of course, as soon as I back down on that point, I stumble across an example:

http://www.christianpost.com/article/society/1323/section/evolution.disclaimer.sticker.ruled.unconstitutional/1.htm

Go figure.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #110 on: March 28, 2006, 06:45:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Well, I walked into that trap.  You tried to make this about christian laws being called unconstitutional, and I let you do it, my bad.  Amateur mistake, I gotta be more watchful.

My original assertion stands, that there are influential christian groups working to legislate biblically, and I think that's counter to the intentions of the founders of our great nation.


There was no trap at all, but I believe your clear bias makes you want to believe there was one.

You rail against "Christian laws" but in point of fact "Christian laws" are no different than any other laws promoted by ANY special interest group. None, zip, zero, zilch.

Laws restrict; it's what they do. So you've no beef there.

As for the founders, if they did not mean for people to act in concert through their legislators and pass laws, just what is the system?

Much to your dismay, this is EXACTLY how the system is supposed to work.

You are just unhappy because the Christians have found the power of the ballot box and are using it.... as the founders intended for any group with shared goals/ideas.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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Christians and end times- Are they here?
« Reply #111 on: March 28, 2006, 06:50:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
...and of course, as soon as I back down on that point, I stumble across an example:
 


What you stumbled across isn't an example of what you are railing against at all.

Those sneaky Christians DID NOT pass a law mandating "evolution stickers" on the text books.

The was no "law" at all. Read the article. The stickers were a decision by the local school board, not State or local legislation.

Further, that school board decision did not withstand a court challenge, so it was ruled unconstitutional in a US District Court.

Where's the problem? The stickers are gone.

Again, it fails to illustrate your argument. This case was based on no "law passed by Christians" and the school board decision was struck down.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Shuckins

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Christians and end times- Are they here?
« Reply #112 on: March 28, 2006, 07:46:59 AM »
Chair,

I have a solution to the problem of "Christian" groups pressuring Congress to pass religious laws;  repeal the First Amendment, or at least the parts that established the rights of assembly and petition for redress of grievances.

That is one answer to the attempts by Christian groups to "force" their morality on others.  Or you could form your own organization of liberal atheists to oppose those attempts.  If you recruit well enough and the contributions come pouring in you stand a good chance of "forcing" your views of morality on the populace via congressional legislative action.

That's how the system works.  It will remain that way until Congress or the States trash the Constitution and write a new one.

Regards, Shuckins
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #113 on: March 28, 2006, 08:09:07 AM »
chair said..

"What I don't like, and what you seem to be confused about, is when christians take their religion and use it to shape public policy to dictate to me and my non-christian neighbors what we can and cannot do. "

CHRISTIANS  them.... those people...  Not, "some christians"  but "christians"  you asked for an example and that is one from only a couple of your posts back.  you seem to have a particular fear of christians..

Then you say that I should be on your side because I hate big government...  

Well... I have told you that I like all groups in power to be weak... that includes christians.  

Where we differ is that you are paranoid and think that christians have all this power and I think that government is thousands of times more of a threat.   Ain't no christians trying to take away my guns or hot rods....

I think christians are a pretty weak group and I don't worry about em..

As toad says... so long as they stay within the bounds of the constitution.

lazs
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storch

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Christians and end times- Are they here?
« Reply #114 on: March 28, 2006, 09:39:49 AM »
chairboy we are currently living in a decidedly post christian America.  we are a secular republic.
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #115 on: March 28, 2006, 10:06:41 AM »
Storch, I respectfully disagree.

Lazs, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.  Though you blithely disregard my concerns, I hope you will pay attention to the efforts that special interest groups are making to twist and exceed the bounds of the constitution, christian or not.

And finally, y'all can keep saying I hate christians over and over, but it still doesn't make it true.  Perhaps it's easier to repeat that mantra than to acknowledge that it's possible for someone to disagree with you without being crazy?  I can only speculate.
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Offline wrag

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Christians and end times- Are they here?
« Reply #116 on: March 28, 2006, 10:09:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Actually, I don't have a problem.  And I'm still waiting.  I invite you to provide an example, otherwise I'll take that as an admission that you made a mistake.


LOL even after I tell you why I don't care go to all the trouble to find it.

You still insist LOLRF

NOPE I do not admit that I made any kinda mistake!  I've been watching your post.  Should have copied some of your stuff.

Your gona cry foul now huh?  Fine REMEMBER this THREAD PLEASE!
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It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline wrag

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Christians and end times- Are they here?
« Reply #117 on: March 28, 2006, 10:16:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Storch, I respectfully disagree.

Lazs, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.  Though you blithely disregard my concerns, I hope you will pay attention to the efforts that special interest groups are making to twist and exceed the bounds of the constitution, christian or not.

And finally, y'all can keep saying I hate christians over and over, but it still doesn't make it true.  Perhaps it's easier to repeat that mantra than to acknowledge that it's possible for someone to disagree with you without being crazy?  I can only speculate.


LOLROF

Wake UP!!!

If this were say 100 years ago you MIGHT have a valid argument.

Now?  It's been steadly going secular for SOOOO long!

Think you have issues that are way over blown.
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It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #118 on: March 28, 2006, 10:17:38 AM »
If you can't find an example, then I guess you could retract your claim.  No harm done, I won't even ask for an apology.  People make mistakes every day.

:D
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Offline wrag

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Christians and end times- Are they here?
« Reply #119 on: March 28, 2006, 10:46:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
If you can't find an example, then I guess you could retract your claim.  No harm done, I won't even ask for an apology.  People make mistakes every day.

:D


Nope I do not retract.  I'm gonna wait.  You can ask for one but not coming.
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It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.
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