Fighter's Glee

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Furball
I just wish bombers were only available off line

[Furball]

Originally posted by dedalos
bomber pilots turn me on

really?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Vudak
Has something fundamentally changed in the past few months I haven't been around?  What's all this about Win the War fellows using "strategy and cooperation"?  Don't they still just blow up the FHs over and over again for eight hours or so, leave the VH alone, and never take the base?  Or have they finally figured out this doesn't work?

Scratching my head here...

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by dedalos
Chop, there is an arena for furbaling.  Its called the DA.  It is always empty now.  Maybe there are not as many furballers out there as you think?

Second, flying buffs and crying about furballers every single day is not multidimentional.

You could have asked HT to remove the gun shake because of 1000 different reasons.  Instead, you blamed furbalers for it.  Can you please point us to a thread where the furballers are asking for the guns to shake?  Did people complain the guns are too acurate?  Yes.  Those were the the strat players.  Furbalers could not care less if a buff is in the area or not.  But, you could not accept that.  As I said before, you guys complin about yourselfs in here.

You have the opportunity to read what I actually designate a furballer to be.  You will find the designation rather broader than the one you use.  In short, I designate them as people who like fighter aircraft and have little interest in anything other than fighter versus fighter.  The are not necessarily people who are only interested in furballs, but they do have a tendency to enter them.

You are as aware as I of the complaints fighter folk have against the accuracy of bomber guns.  You're one of them that complains.  You are also aware that one of the suggestions which is commonly repeated to nerf the bomber guns is to introduce the effect of recoil to the bomber guns.

You're wrong, of course.  Furballers, even the pure furballer, does care about buffs in the area.  If nothing else the complaint is against the buffs for downing hangers.  Who do you think is in the fighter shooting at buffs?  Other buff drivers?

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Furball
i wonder what ChopSaw's handle used to be?

Crin

[Gato]

Originally posted by dedalos
Chop, there is an arena for furbaling.  Its called the DA.  It is always empty now.  Maybe there are not as many furballers out there as you think?

Second, flying buffs and crying about furballers every single day is not multidimentional.

You could have asked HT to remove the gun shake because of 1000 different reasons.  Instead, you blamed furbalers for it.  Can you please point us to a thread where the furballers are asking for the guns to shake?  Did people complain the guns are too acurate?  Yes.  Those were the the strat players.  Furbalers could not care less if a buff is in the area or not.  But, you could not accept that.  As I said before, you guys complin about yourselfs in here.

I think where this is all getting mixed up is in how people define things.  As I see it, a Furballer is one who flies fighters and nothing else.  He wants to get kills on any plane he can get to and most of the time will fly till he dies or is out of ammo/fuel, then he will RTB, or wants to land all the kills he has and get his name in lights. The WWF will use any plane/vehicle which is there to get the job done for taking a base and in the end, winning the map.  They will take down buildings or the people who stand in thier way.  Then there are the general players who do a little of it all.  These people change mindsets to what they are doing at the time, either furballing or WWF.  There is a fouth group in there who just want to blow stuff up.  They try to aline themselves with the WWF, but really they are like the furballers and don't really want anything other than to kill buidings.

So now, if we can agree as to who is who in all this, maybe some of the "name calling" can stop and get to the real meat of the subject.

I started this tread in the hopes of airing some real ideas to help improve the gameplay. Not to get into a "who is at fault for what" and name calling.  Maybe my hopes were to high.

I have been in and out of this game for many years now.  I left before AHII came online, so I don't know what all went on with it then.  There have always been different points of view and I don't think that will ever change.  SO why can't we agree to disagree on some things and work together to make this the best game it can be for as many people as possible.  Hitech reads this treads and as you have seen, replies in some.  IF we can come up with some viable ideas to help HTC make the game better, then why don't we?

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Morpheus
What is the war to you? Really now. Think about this for a minute.

If its just fighting buildings and blowing the holly hell out of them, then go do that off line. Right? Because I garrantee you that if there ever was this (queer) "WWF" arena, that's all you people would be doing, fighting and blowing up buildings. War winners go out of their way to avoid fighter confrontation at all costs to drop their bombs on buildings. So what would happen is you'd have all two, or three sides (which ever you want) on different sides of the map, racing to grab land and blow up as many buildings as possible to "Win The War".

In my opinion the "war" is the whole picture. Not just bombers, bombs and goons... As you make it seem. The war includes all players, players who are just looking for a red icon to shoot, players who are out in a fighter deffending a base (purposfully shooting down a particular plane), those who are attacking a base... Simply put, everyone.

So what I suggest you do is take this "I want what I want, the way I want it... NOW... Because the way things are now doesnt make me happy.".... WHINE... And can it. Because this is a horse that has been beaten for years. And the same answer is given out, by Hitech everytime. Care to take a guess at what that answer is?

In the past I've flown fighters predominately.  In the future I may do so again.  I enjoy all aspects of the game, not just the bombers I predominately fly now.  I say this because you seem to be under the impression I only care for bombers and destroying buildings with them.

Am I to understand you didn't like AH1?  You thought it was just about blowing up buildings and avoiding fighters?  You thought it was just about "bombers, bombs and goons"?  I didn't and don't.  As said before, the WWF arena would be more like AH1 in terms of strat system and some settings.  Why would you fear the mere idea of that as a threat?

It's amazing how much your opinion of war being the "whole picture" is exactly the way I see it.  Just in case you suspect I’m being sarcastic, I'm not.  We really do see war the same way including all the examples you indicated.  What you fail to note is that my comments are directed at the partially crippled strat system and the tendency of HTC to make changes to accommodate fighters at the expense of the other players whom you yourself have just mentioned.  Currently under the microscope are bomber guns, the Ostwind and to a lesser extent some of the other gv guns.

Having said all that, I now respond to your suggestion of "can it".  Imagine, if you will, what my suggestion might be as to where you can shove the can.  Mkay?  

[ChopSaw]

[Rino]

Originally posted by ChopSaw
And here I thought the guns on bombers were mounted in heavy motorized turrets.  Small light things were they?  Huh.  Even waist gunners had bracing for the guns.  Nobody can fire a .50 machine gun hand held.  At least not unless they want to spray the sky.

No comments on the Ostwind or coax of the Tiger?

     Don't know why I even bother with you..but not everything was
American...and even American stuff was very close to the operator.
Ever see a dorsal mount?  The gunner stands BETWEEN the twin 50s.

     I'm SURE a buff expert like your self might have noticed the recoil
evident in the waist/cheek/nose mounts.  Heck, a tripod mounted 50
cal can't absorb all the recoil generated, much less a post mount.

     One last thing..the gunners decidedly DID spray the sky, the objective
was not to pad their egos with kills, it was to protect the bomber crew
by keeping the enemy at as far a distance as possible.

[Hoarach]

Originally posted by ChopSaw
I'm not entirely sure what your point is.  Some bomber guys are bad?  Nobodies interested in strat?  The only thing bombers are good for is griefing fighters?  What?  Why didn't you just shoot them down before they did whatever it was they did?  I would have.  Nothing better than griefing a griefer.

Because of KS I cant shoot down my own country's buffs.

If KS was off I wouldnt let a single buff off the ground and disable ord at every base.

And because of the buff porking dweebs in FT, them rooks took the bish base in FT.  Bish need to take the base in FT before knights lose theirs as well.  Donut is no fun without FT.

[Gato]

Originally posted by Rino
Don't know why I even bother with you..but not everything was
American...and even American stuff was very close to the operator.
Ever see a dorsal mount?  The gunner stands BETWEEN the twin 50s.

     I'm SURE a buff expert like your self might have noticed the recoil
evident in the waist/cheek/nose mounts.  Heck, a tripod mounted 50
cal can't absorb all the recoil generated, much less a post mount.

     One last thing..the gunners decidedly DID spray the sky, the objective
was not to pad their egos with kills, it was to protect the bomber crew
by keeping the enemy at as far a distance as possible.

I don't know why you bother either.  From what you say, you know everything there is to know and everyone else is always wrong.  I did a little search on you and your postings.  It seems that in most of them you know what is right and everyone else is wrong or you are just trying to make a  "smart" comment.

It also seems you have a thing for Chopsaw.  I found you in many of the same treads as him.  This is not a flame, just what seems to be fact, at least to me.

Please, we, or at least I am trying to find ways to make everything work so everyone can have as much fun in AH as can be.

As for the gun recoil, that seems to be a done deal, hitech put it in and I don't think it will change, so move on, please.

If we can't find something worthwhile in this area, then maybe it's time for this tread to be closed!

I try to look at all sides and I would hope everyone else would too.  I just seems things are moving in one direction and limiting what another group can do in the game.  I think this will, in the end, hurt the game and limit the people who play it.  I don't want to, what was the phase used "pee in ----- pool"?

Now, I'm not sure if this will get edited in part or whole as a flame, I hope not.  It is not meant as one, just as a reminded of what we are trying to talk about.  And I mean this to everyone.

[SlapShot]

The problem is the strat-guys are getting punish because they don't want to be furballers.

I call BS ... prove it.

Furballers complain that the strat-guys are ruining their fun so now the strat-guys can't take the fuel down.

I call BS ... prove it ... another Urban Myth.

Furballers complain that the strat-guys are now taking the FH down so then HTC adds bomb calibration.

I call BS ... prove it ... another Urban Myth.

Furballers complain that the FH are still going down so they want the FH hardened.

I call BS ... prove it ... another Urban Myth.

Furballers complain that the bomber are too deadly to shoot down from the six so HTC adds gun shake to the bombers gun.

I call BS ... prove it ... another Urban Myth.

Same thing happened to the osti. They were too deadly for the furballers so HTC added randomization to the shooting and now there's gun shake.

I call BS ... prove it ... another Urban Myth.

When a furballer complains, changes are made for the sake of "realism" – who ever heard of a fighter getting downed by a bomber or ack?

I call BS ... prove it.

Sour grapes? I have a truckload.

So go make some whine ... we'll send ya some cheese.

[SlapShot]

As I see it, a Furballer is one who flies fighters and nothing else. He wants to get kills on any plane he can get to and most of the time will fly till he dies or is out of ammo/fuel, then he will RTB, or wants to land all the kills he has and get his name in lights.

You are so very wrong ... it explains your confusion and posts.

You will find the designation rather broader than the one you use. In short, I designate them as people who like fighter aircraft and have little interest in anything other than fighter versus fighter.

You too are so very wrong ... what is interesting is that you have broadened your definition to suit the argument ... and what is surprizing is that your next sentence gets it right ...

The are not necessarily people who are only interested in furballs, but they do have a tendency to enter them.

You see ... we do fly around are TRY to create one ... when one is in full bore ... there is nothing else that really interests us ... those that occasionally drop into a furball when flying a fighter ... is not a real furballer.

[SlapShot]

You could have asked HT to remove the gun shake because of 1000 different reasons. Instead, you blamed furbalers for it. Can you please point us to a thread where the furballers are asking for the guns to shake? Did people complain the guns are too acurate? Yes. Those were the the strat players. Furbalers could not care less if a buff is in the area or not. But, you could not accept that. As I said before, you guys complin about yourselfs in here.

No truer words have been spoken.

We could CARE LESS about bombers enroute to wherever it is that they are going. Personally I avoid them like the plague.

But ... now that the .50 cals are jumping around like they should, you need some sort of scapegoat to hopefully apply the thumbscrews to HT's softer side and villify the furballers as the cause of your angst.

Find another whipping post ... it's getting real old having the strat players blame all their woes on the furballers ... you guys obviously don't really know or understand how HT operates. Go to a con sometime ... you will know what I am talking about.

Hint ... he tends to go in the opposite direction of a squealing whine with a dastardly smile on his face ...  

So ... if we furballers were such whiners ... HT would be compelled to IGNORE US (with a smile on his face).

[Gato]

Originally posted by SlapShot
As I see it, a Furballer is one who flies fighters and nothing else. He wants to get kills on any plane he can get to and most of the time will fly till he dies or is out of ammo/fuel, then he will RTB, or wants to land all the kills he has and get his name in lights.

You are so very wrong ... it explains your confusion and posts.

You will find the designation rather broader than the one you use. In short, I designate them as people who like fighter aircraft and have little interest in anything other than fighter versus fighter.

You too are so very wrong ... what is interesting is that you have broadened your definition to suit the argument ... and what is surprizing is that your next sentence gets it right ...

The are not necessarily people who are only interested in furballs, but they do have a tendency to enter them.

You see ... we do fly around are TRY to create one ... when one is in full bore ... there is nothing else that really interests us ... those that occasionally drop into a furball when flying a fighter ... is not a real furballer.

Okay, so I'm wrong. Give me your definition so I have an understanding of how you view it.  Come on, I'm truely trying to understand all the points of view here.  Maybe I have been wrong thinking "Furballers" complain about bombers, but in the game, it sure seems that way.

When I'm in a bomber, I'm trying to move things in the direction for my country to win the map.  When I'm in a fighter, the goal is still the same, just in a different fashion.

I remember back in AHI all the fighter guys (notice I didn't say furballers this time) complained that the bombers took the fuel down to 25% and they couldn't fly the planes the distance they wanted.  When I came back to the game about a year ago, the fuel could not be taken down that low, the only thought that comes to mind is that the fighter guys got their way.   Just a note, in those days I didn't fly a bomber that often, but saw the 25% as a fact  and went on with life.

It just seems there is little need for bombers in the game as it is now.  Everything that can be taken down, can be done in fighters.  It sort of leaves the bomber guys out in the cold with little to do.  So they take down the hangers and then if nobody helps by takeing the base, they are called "porkers" and said to be hurting the gameplay.

Now, if I have this all wrong, please correct me and let's get on to making things better for everyone.  Remember, the goal of war (or a war game) is to win.  The goal of games is to have fun.