Fighter's Glee

[SlapShot]

Furballers are in it for the fight and the fight only. A "furball" is 10 or more fighters mixing it up every which way but loose ... taxing their SA to its fullest and hopefully are able to leave the furball with a few pelts hanging from their belt. They more ... the merrier.

I remember back in AHI all the fighter guys (notice I didn't say furballers this time) complained that the bombers took the fuel down to 25% and they couldn't fly the planes the distance they wanted. When I came back to the game about a year ago, the fuel could not be taken down that low, the only thought that comes to mind is that the fighter guys got their way. Just a note, in those days I didn't fly a bomber that often, but saw the 25% as a fact and went on with life.

How quickly we forget ... it wasn't the bombers that were causing the problem with the fuel ... it was the endless waves of suicidal Typhoons and P-38s that caused much of the angst. Their only intention was to fly to the target ... wack all the fuel and auger doing it.

This is what I posted in a different thread ... maybe it will shed some light for you ...

Between the over-whelming numbers of Rooks at the time, porking everything in sight, and the infamous Bish Typhoon pork and auger dweebs, there was no fuel to be had. If you flew a Pony ... everything was A-OK, but if you flew early war rides, as Toad pointed out, you were SOL due to the small gas tanks.

Between the every so "hip" (at the time) fuel porking and the introduction of AH II with a 2x fuel burn multiplier, those in power at HTC decided to stop fuel porking.

[SlapShot]

It just seems there is little need for bombers in the game as it is now. Everything that can be taken down, can be done in fighters. It sort of leaves the bomber guys out in the cold with little to do.

And how is this new ? This is the way it has been since I started to play over 5 years ago.

You bomber jocks will have more than enough to do once Combat Tour is released. There will be flocks and flocks of bomber missions with crediable targets ... just be patient, cause for the near future ... ain't nothing gonna happen in the MA to change the bomber roll.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Rino
Don't know why I even bother with you..but not everything was
American...and even American stuff was very close to the operator.
Ever see a dorsal mount?  The gunner stands BETWEEN the twin 50s.

     I'm SURE a buff expert like your self might have noticed the recoil
evident in the waist/cheek/nose mounts.  Heck, a tripod mounted 50
cal can't absorb all the recoil generated, much less a post mount.

     One last thing..the gunners decidedly DID spray the sky, the objective
was not to pad their egos with kills, it was to protect the bomber crew
by keeping the enemy at as far a distance as possible.

(sigh) I don't know why you bother with me either.  I really don't.  I'm just not worth it.  Bad, ChopSaw, bad bomber pilot!

Who said I was a buff expert?  Not me and certainly not anybody else.  I don't think everything is or was American, but those are the bombers I fly in AH and comment on.  As far as I can see the chin guns on 17's are not post mounted.  They're on a remote turret.  On the 24's the nose guns are mounted on a huge platform.  The cheek and waist guns…..okay, you may have a point for shaking, but you can't man the cheek guns (though they fire now, thank you HTC) and hardly anyone mans the waist guns.

I've seen a tripod mounted, liquid cooled, 50 caliber machine gun do its thing.  It didn't seem to have any trouble getting its projectiles into the target and, bye the way, with considerably more damage done than currently seems to be modeled in AH.

When I say "spray the sky" I mean it in the "oh god somebody help me shut this thing off and then get me to a hospital" sort of way.  When you said hand held, I envisioned somebody standing with the gun cradled in their arms or on a loose sling.  Silly of me.  Must have been before coffee.  I realize now you were saying they're controlled by hand at the grip while mounted on a post.  The vibration may be historically accurate, but we do away with a lot of other historical accuracies to make the game play work.  I think the shaking guns on bombers is one of them (despite the fact it may have been introduced as a genuine desire to improve immersion) and I really think that's the case with the Ostwind and to a lesser extent the coaxial guns on tanks.

Spraying the sky to ward off aircraft doesn't work as well in AH as it may have in real life.  Nobodies afraid of dying.  Here we have to disable the aircraft or at the very least get enough hits on it to worry the fighter pilot.  It's a little harder now with the shaking.  The shaking of the bomber guns wouldn't be a big deal in itself.  It's just one more thing to add to the list.  Lack of ability to set convergence, lack of ability to focus the guns of all 3 bombers on a single target unless the target is within a certain range and how the gun solution for bombers was changed to un-focus the guns and create more of a dispersal pattern.  It just seems to keep piling up.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Hoarach
Because of KS I cant shoot down my own country's buffs.

If KS was off I wouldnt let a single buff off the ground and disable ord at every base.

And because of the buff porking dweebs in FT, them rooks took the bish base in FT.  Bish need to take the base in FT before knights lose theirs as well.  Donut is no fun without FT.

Umm….healthy attitude?  Sounds like some of those "buff porking dweebs in FT" might have had something in mind other than simply ruining the fun for fighters.  Maybe not.

[Furball]

im sure this has been said before:

there are two types of people in this game, those that can fly fighters, and those that wish they can fly fighters.

[Gato]

Originally posted by Furball
im sure this has been said before:

there are two types of people in this game, those that can fly fighters, and those that wish they can fly fighters.

It has also been said, "Those that can do, those that can't, play games and believe they can"

[Masherbrum]

All I do is shoot down stuff in a Spit 5.  

Karaya

[ChopSaw]

SlapShot,

You can call "bs" and claim "urban myth" all you wish.  The evidence is plain to all who have read the threads.  It is also clear to those who have witnessed the transformations this game has gone through since AH1.  Let's take just one example from your "bs/urban myth" list.  Minimum fuel at a field.  Used to be 25%, now is 75%.  Why?  Well it sure wasn't gv's, boats or bombers that found it distressing to have 25%.  Who do you suppose that leaves? The change was made to 75%.  Why, if not because of the complaints?
It was a common complaint by furballers/fighters…or whatever you would like to call them.  On another thread you, yourself, indicated it was a legitimate complaint.  From your description of the last days of AH1, I agreed.  I believe the solution we both found acceptable was to harden the bunkers to the point that they couldn't be taken down without difficulty by some guy in a Typhoon and to return the 25% fuel minimum under that condition.

The designation/definition/description I came up with for Furballer was for the sake of convenience in discussion.  Of course I broadened my definition to suit the discussion.  I stated I was doing it before I did.  It was only for the discussion regarding having two separate MA's and I wasn't trying to pull anything.  If you read what I've written without thinking I've got it in for you and your squad, you might develop insight into what I'm saying instead of taking snatches of it to flame about.  However, for your sake and those like you I'll use something like "group one" next time.

As far as furballers not complaining about bombers?  Come on.  Even in this thread you've got a guy complaining about buffs ruining fun at Fighter Town.  Sure seemed like he's a furballer to me.

Personally, I don't use "furballers" as a whipping post.  I note the changes that are made to the game, the complaints that are made and who makes them and who the changes make happy.  The furballers, strat guys, bombers, gver's, etc., all have points of view and desires.  As I've pointed out in the past, I like furballers in the game.  I do what I can to cooperate with them and support them when they have a goal other than simply running up personal scores.  Personally, I also try to leave them alone if that's what it looks like they want.  At the very least they are pretty sky decorations.

I'm not sure about your familiarity with HT's personality.  I'm sure you believe you're correct.  However, again, I note the complaints made, who makes them and the changes that occur.  Please don't tell me fuballers aren't whiners.  We've both seen otherwise.

I hope you're right about ToD/CT.  As I've told you before, I have my doubts and hopes, we'll just have to see.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Furball
im sure this has been said before:

there are two types of people in this game, those that can fly fighters, and those that wish they can fly fighters.

Your statement is showing a little prejudice there, dear.

There is something else that's been said;  There are those that choose to think, strategize and use flexible tactics.  You might have heard of the term tactician.  Then there are those that are a simple situation of hand eye coordination.  You know….first person shooter junkies.

Personally, I don't wholly subscribe to the sentiment in that.  As I've said before, I like fighters, have flown them before and probably shall again.  It's just that right now I'm interested in other things.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
All I do is shoot down stuff in a Spit 5.  

You're such a liar.  You keep telling me, in other threads, what a hot Hurricane pilot you are.  I'll bet you fly more than those two.

[Masherbrum]

"The US 8th Air Force shot down 6,098 fighter planes, 1 for every 12,700 shots fired.  But actual numbers were doubled roughly. "

Make it closer to 3,049 fighters, and 25,400 shots fired and you almost have the right number.

The Allies in the ETO lost 11,000 Heavy Bombers alone, this does NOT count Medium bombers.  IRL, the waist gunners were useless (I've read too many books, and heard this from WWII bomber pilots themselves).  

If you want "more accurate guns" that already exceed RL expectations.  Then, concede to us the implement of more potent ack.  It is common knowledge that the flak was more deadly toward the rear of the formation or on the return.   Make it random at first, the longer a strat buffer sticks around, the quicker he may find himself/herself in the tower.

Karaya

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by ChopSaw
You're such a liar.  You keep telling me, in other threads, what a hot Hurricane pilot you are.  I'll bet you fly more than those two.

All I did was say I CAN and have shot down buffs in the Hurricane IIC.

Karaya

[Morpheus]

In the past I've flown fighters predominately.  In the future I may do so again.  I enjoy all aspects of the game, not just the bombers I predominately fly now.  I say this because you seem to be under the impression I only care for bombers and destroying buildings with them.

The thing is here, and I find it very amusing... is that you aren't bringing anything new to the table here. Everything, EVERYTHING, you've said in this thread has been talked about for years now. My suggestion to you is that you use the search feature and take the time to investigate past whines, before you further clutter this board with more, useless whines.

Am I to understand you didn't like AH1?  You thought it was just about blowing up buildings and avoiding fighters?  You thought it was just about "bombers, bombs and goons"?  I didn't and don't.  As said before, the WWF arena would be more like AH1 in terms of strat system and some settings.  Why would you fear the mere idea of that as a threat?

What ever gave you the idea that I did not like AH1? FWIW, I think AH1 was far better than AH2 is. That is in my opinion. 4-5 years ago, there weren't so many newbs running around screeming holly hell when they found something with the game they didn't like.

It's amazing how much your opinion of war being the "whole picture" is exactly the way I see it.

In your eyes maybe. It's tough to see the whole picture with blinders on though, isn't it?

 

What you fail to note is that my comments are directed at the partially crippled strat system and the tendency of HTC to make changes to accommodate fighters at the expense of the other players whom you yourself have just mentioned.  

Again, I'm still waiting for you to bring something to the table here that is of use. Fairy tails twisted to your agenda and deluded "facts" (aka bull*****)simply will not work here. The strat system has been in need of repair since AH2 was released. It was not done to, nor was it ever intended to "punish" those who enjoy bombing buildings.

 

Having said all that, I now respond to your suggestion of "can it".  Imagine, if you will, what my suggestion might be as to where you can shove the can.  Mkay?  

Another sad example of how you think you can "get things done" around here. I imagine its the same with your real life problems too. If you have one that is.

[SuperDud]

I think all fighters should be removed from the game. Also we should add the B29.

[ChopSaw]

Morpheus,

What I find amusing is your attempt to bury a discussion by saying it's been talked about before and denigrating those that wish to discuss it.  This is your idea of bringing something new to the table?  If it is, I have to say I've seen it before.  So has everyone else.  Didn't work then, won't work now and will never work.  Posing as the old hand who knows all to satisfy your ego and silence those whose ideas you disagree with is pretty old stuff.  Nobody knows like you do the things you know and you know it all?  Please.  My suggestion to you is to find a new tactic.  One that works.

The only blinders I see are the ones you attempt to pull over peoples eyes to try to get them to step in what you fondly think of as reasoning.  Derisive comments, dismissive remarks, out and out lies, erroneous characterizations and a pathetic attempt to bait people will not work and (bends down, speaking slowly and gently as to a child with a  learning disability) those things are not reasoning and they are not substitutes for truth or facts.  Bring something new to your act.  The old one is failing.

If you don't care for what I write I have another suggestion for you.  Don’t read it.  I'm sure that's simple enough for you.  Far easier than whining about what others write.  Far easier than telling them to "can it".

My suggestion to readers of these threads is to reach your own conclusions, come up with your own ideas and discuss them on these forums without being overly concerned by individuals with a special interest agenda trying to shout you down or intimidate you with name calling tactics.

Regards,
ChopSaw