Rooks Wanted For Mission Alliance

[Simaril]

I'm a rook too, and before LCA formed, aStone and I had a ...difference of opinion...about carpet bomber raids into fighter town. I tried to get just one idea across -- if you guys like capturing bases, great, go for it; BUT you dont have to pee in the cornflakes of TEAMMATES who like fightertown for its nonstop quick action. As I pointed to him a month ago, individual bombers are feed for the swarm, but a mission of them can flatten hangars so effectively that teh whole FT situation can be destroyed. And this time it happened, and bases were captured by less enlightened LCA'ers or some dorks -- because the hangars got porked.

There are dozens upon dozens of other bases you can capture, and other ways you can tee off the enemy. Taking (or porking or vulching) a FT base on the ONE map that really has fightertown is an enormously selfish thing to do. Its only purpose is to deliberately take away one groups way of having fun, simply because you can. Wanna do a FT bomber run? drop the ord or BHs, kill the fighters as they attack you. But, taking down the FHs is no different from the dweebs who capture every base in AvA and nuke the arena till an admin can reset it.

PLuck covered the "one crappy act doesnt justify another" angle, so I'll leave it at that with my hearty agreeement.

And before you say it, there ARE lots of other ways to ruin fun for others, and many normal game actions by one chesspiece limit options for others.  The intrinsic difference should be obvious, though since capturing FT bases are not natural parts of gameplay unless you simply are out to mess with others. Killing a CV might be base defense to landgrabbers, and they have as much claim to their fun as the furballers -- but in FT the land grabbed doesnt lead anywhere, doesnt ahve any tactical "team victory" value.

The only reason to do it is to torque off people who dont go for landgrabbing.

I think the LCA concept is great, and it demonstrates the value of concentration of force. Thats the main reason it works. I have a real problem with FT hangar raids: when aStone insisted on that first FT bomber mission 2 rotations ago, he claimed that he wasnt trying to capture anything, just trying to get people mad. This rotation, it appears, the truth came out. Any LCA talk about letting everbody enjoy the way they like to play is shown to be poppycock, and the actions that speak louder than words clearly show that these guys only respect their style of play. They bombed what they wanted to, knowing the fighter guys' perspective, and regardless of what it did to others' chances on the one site on the one map that caters to the fighter lovers' style. So in spite of the kind invitation, I'll continue to steer clear of LCA raids in the future.

Seriously -- for furballers this is ONE MAP out of all the others that lets us have reliable fights in a predictable place. WHy cant you give us that chance just this one map?

[AKWarp]

Good grief,

  You people need to get out more often.

To quote Simaril:

  There are dozens upon dozens of other bases you can capture, and other ways you can tee off the enemy.

 Exactly, so why does it matter if anyone takes an "FT" base?  As mentioned, there are dozens upon dozens of other bases.....

  The excuse that you can't find fights is pretty lame....especially when there are 300+ people online at any given time.

  You want a "fighters only" setup, then ask HT to make an "FT Arena".  That way, there won't be any pissing and moaning about who killed what and the rest of us interested in winning the war (the basic concept for the MA, BTW) won't have to worry about how many of our team are over in FTville and can have an accurate roster count of who is actually doing what.

  And what's this stuff about "true colors"???  Lol, now that's funny.  I get a kick out of the guys that cry about "honor" and all that in a silly little internet game....get a clue peeps, this is a game, it ain't real life.  HOing happens, spying happens, gaming the game happens (like the neat little trick of hiding your GV in the base of the shore batteries, etc, etc, ad nauseum) and then you want to bring in "honor"?  Please.  Get over yourselves.

  To qote Simaril again:

    and the actions that speak louder than words clearly show that these guys only respect their style of play.


   Oh yes, please tell us more about that.  Tell us about the whiners that only want their little FT village to themselves and no one is to bomb it or capture it...please, go on, tell me about respect for certain styles of play.

   

[killnu]

well said simaril.

the rest of you, take your "war" and shove it right up your

[Pawz]

Can I get a jack and Coke?

[Slash27]

Who's in the LCA?

[LYNX]

Originally posted by eagl
Lynx,

When you make a judgement that someone else's GAMEPLAY was an "ERROR", you're assuming that everyone actually cares about how many bases fall or that their enjoyment comes from taking/holding bases and meeting the "win" criteria in the main arena...

If that's what floats your boat, that's great.  Lots of others just want to have fun and if they have a lot of fun attacking one field, why does the loss of 30 "non-fun" fields make their good time an "ERROR" and the wrong thing to do?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but lots of players do not share your priorities in the arena and giving people grief over having fun isn't going to change their minds or turn them into obedient soldiers for your war effort.

Just my $.02

No offence but this is one of the oddist replies I'v come across. Generally there is two schools of thought in Aces High.  There's the Furballer and the Land Grabber.  Now you have introduced a third the  Cindy Lawper " just wanna have Fuhun".  This argument you put up just don't wash.  Firstly we are all here to have Fun.  Thats a given otherwise the arena would be empty so I'll use the two sides of the standard AH coin.

FURBALLER There are hundreds of bases to take.  Why take a FT base?  It don't spawn anywhere.  Taking a FT base won't win you the war and I ain't helping ya do that.  You closed off our fun.  Now we have only 1 enemy but they won't up because the newbs are vulching um.  Now we gotta fly ages to find a fight.  I ain't got time to mess about flying 15 min to a fight. .....etc etc.

Land Grabber Oh great capture but Tactically totally wrong.  Now bish have another 20 to 40 Goon killing uppers to meet our advance.  We are going to be way out numbered with the whole Bish air force loose in the MA while we have 20 % of our force tooling it about in FT still...etc.
............................. ............................. ............................. ............................. ....

If that's what floats your boat, that's great. Lots of others just want to have fun and if they have a lot of fun attacking one field, why does the loss of 30 "non-fun" fields make their good time an "ERROR" and the wrong thing to do?

Is this a polite way of saying "screw you all".  Or is it a way of justifying a massive tactical ERROR.  I can't work it out as this statments seems to have a foot in both camps.  Tactical ERROR sumed up..... Taking 1 base to loose thirty plus = NOT GOOD.  Taking 1 base to piss off a loud of guys in ALL sides = NOT GOOD.  Or 10 + guys $15 pissed off 80+ guys $15 = NOT GOOD.

How taking that 1 FT base affected me.  As a Land Grabber I spent Friday / Saturday Porking Bish bases and defending our bases.  You guys were on my side and made my FUN not so fun.  You forced upon your OWN side, team, squadies overwheming odds.  Bish rolled to within 3 bases of our HQ.  Taking that 1 tactically useless base was the best thing for Bish.  It was on a par with field 41 2 terrains ago when tactically impared rooks split Bish / Knights from fighting each other.

Yer these guys had their fun.  They drank from the well then pissed in it

[StracCop]

Fight...don't whine!

I'm reading this thread and I'm struck with one thought: you guys take this game waaaaaaay too seriously!

Any base is a legitimate target for capture, unless Hitech either makes it impossible to accomplish or publishes some rules to the contrary.

Another thing you should remember is that we want a good fight as much as anyone else.  If there are alot of players in FT to fight...thats where we'll be...where the action is! Capturing an FT base should be MUCH harder than any other...and thats why we do it and why its fun...!

Someone posted earlier that we are capturing 'poorly defended bases.'
Oh really?  How are we to respond to this?  Are we wrong to attack and capture bases with many enemy combatants to overcome or should we stick to capturing undefended bases and be the subject of ridicule?Sorry, but we prefer a contest.  Its more FUN that way.  And like you said, FT is always busy & we can always find a good fight there so we come.

Here's an idea for you to consider the next time you find the LCA hurtling toward a base in fightertown...If you don't want to lose it..DEFEND IT!

And when you defend your FT base (or any other base) against air attacks you get a ...... wait for it... thats right, a FURBALL! a Dogfight, Air-to-Air Combat...just what you say you want! So what's the problem??

You either want a fight or you don't.

Of course, if you just want to cherry pick your kills from within a 20+ plane furball then that's something else entirely. But at least be honest if thats your aim. If fightertown is nothing more than your personal perk farm than say so.

But ... if you want a 'contest' you shouldn't complain...just get in the air and stop us! Dogfight with us...!!!  Keep us from taking your base! We aren't that good anyway...you might even get lucky and stop us.  

We invite you to try.

[AKWarp]

"FURBALLER There are hundreds of bases to take. Why take a FT base? It don't spawn anywhere. Taking a FT base won't win you the war and I ain't helping ya do that. You closed off our fun. Now we have only 1 enemy but they won't up because the newbs are vulching um. Now we gotta fly ages to find a fight. I ain't got time to mess about flying 15 min to a fight. .....etc etc."

Taking an FT base counts to base totals.  Taking the FT bases is good....two bases right there that are hard to get to, easily defended.  Makes great tactical sense.

Fly ages to a fight?  BWAHA, please.  15 minutes to a fight?  Yeah, right.  If you ain't got time, then why play?

 
"Tactical ERROR sumed up..... Taking 1 base to loose thirty plus = NOT GOOD"

  Taking one base did not lose us thirty.  We lost 30 bases because the bish had us outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 all next morning and day.

  If the furballers just want to fly fighters, great, so why can't they come along with the land grabbers when they fly bombers to take fields and escort them, fight all the fighters that come up, etc?  That way everyone gets a good deal.  Better yet, the FT arena is a better idea because it seems the "FT Gang" just wants ultra convenient, perk building, vulcheramas within 30 seconds of lift off...  

[DoKGonZo]

The day I can take off from a FT field and not see it being vultched or toolshedded it is the day I'll believe that FT is all about "air to air combat."

And how does using spies to ruin large missions not "deliberately take away one groups way of having fun?"

[LYNX]

Originally posted by AKWarp

"Tactical ERROR sumed up..... Taking 1 base to loose thirty plus = NOT GOOD"

  Taking one base did not lose us thirty.  We lost 30 bases because the bish had us outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 all next morning and day.

I am obviously not making myself clear.  Lets see if I can explain it another way.  In the game we have guys that like to just fly fighters and shoot the living daylights outta any red plane they see.  We also have guys that like to use an eliment of Team work to capture bases with a final goal on winning the reset.

As pointed out in many many posts alot of furballers, not every single one but the vast majority, couln't give two hoots about a reset.  They are only interested in the "combat".

With equal arguement in reply to many many posts the reseters, land grabbers, tool shedders as the furballers like to call us, main priority is winning.

So with that said if a Furballer has his number 1 FUN base taken off him I ask you this.  What are his 2 remaining options?  Throw his teddy out the pram and log off or go and try and find a fight?  If I was paying furballer money I'd go find a fight.

Considering a furballer mentality to the effect of quick combat would your teams furballers stay in FT while the map gets rolled behind them.  Even if a reset was iminant?  You bet your bottom dollar he would and we have been reset on this map before now.  I'm not talking "skuzzy" won reset I mean 100% the dogs bollocks, full blown, in ya face, taken a kick in reset.

With all sides being equal approx 20% of each teams players use FT but taking a FT base puts one teams 20% in the open arena.  Considerably more bullets on the loose to deal with. Thats to say the evicted FT team suddenly gets an expected increase in numbers out side  of Fighter Town.

When you roll on the next FUN base that wasn't considered FUN 20 min ago you are faced with a greater number of opponents.

You are True to say we were nearly out numbered 2 to 1 but it woulda been less if the Bish furballers were happilly tucked up in their FT world.  Sure we were out numbered that happens everyday depending on time of day but why compound the matter?  You really couldn't have chosen a worse time of the week to take a FT base. Friday bloody night.  The beggining of the weekend and Bish weekend furballers log on and there's no FT base.  (1)What they going to do?  (2)Who they going to shoot? THINK about these 2 questions.  

Be honest with the answeres then look at what you wrote  We lost 30 bases because the bish had us outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 all next morning and day.  

Gotta tell ya matey I wasn't impressed and I'm on your side.  Not a Bishop or a knight.  I as a Rook had to deal the effects of this FT ERROR while your still in bed.  Don't like having to defend against a roll / hoard especially when other Rooks see it coming and do sod all about it.  Don't like having to go 2 sectors into Bish lines to kill barracks.  It's very difficult to get out alive.  I am not a pork and augerr guy.  No Sir, not impressed one bit.  

All I ask is you apply the field captures to where it is Tactically needed.  Shooting your self in the foot and not understanding that you actually shot yourself in the foot is ...well ermm.

[eagl]

Lynx,

Sorry to upset your categories, but there are a lot of players who don't fall into your pre-conceived notions of how the game *should* be played.  Back when the squealing Pigs were a powerful and active squad (we started around the time CK switched over to WB), our single squad rule was to have fun.  That policy kept us a happy squad, attracting as much talent as we could absorb, and our refusal to be tied to restrictive labels such as being a "historical" or "theme" squadron directly resulted in our success and gameplay enjoyment.

One night, we might go on an air to air rampage and sweep the skies clean.  One month we might decide to win the WB 10v10 tourney.  One month we might decide to form an alliance between friendly squads and utterly dominate the arena for a month (Barn Yard Animals Composite Air Wing).  Regardless of how we played the game, we did whatever was fun.  Of course people whined about how we weren't playing the game right, but back then the arenas were typically set up a little differently (fields were closer and radar was all-seeing) so it was easier to find pure air to air fights and "strat" players could avoid the furballs and busy areas if they desired.

Not much has changed, including the calls from some people saying that someone else or some other group is not playing correctly.  It's a freaking sandbox, so there is no right or wrong way to play, period.

Sorry if that bursts your bubble, but the people you're whining about aren't playing by your rules.  They're playing by the rules HTC set up when they designed the game and the arena, and too bad so sorry but their opinion on proper gameplay is just as valid as yours.  Maybe even more valid, since they're not whining about how you wasted your evening in a wrong-headed, mistaken and pointless effort to capture fields instead of joining in with the people who were actually having fun.

Furballers vs. captureoids is a gross over-simplification.  Most people in the arena just want to fight, hate wasting time looking for a fight, and they want to have fun regardless of if they're flying a bomber or fighter, on offense or defense, or in a horde or all alone.  The game ought to encourage a variety of gameplay styles and it does (with my personal quibbles that the heavy AAA is too accurate and the fields are in general too far apart leading to long non-fighting periods of time that I despise in an arena), so go with the flow and quit trying to dictate some sort of gameplay morality.

Yes some behaviors in the game are terribly irritating, but they've ALWAYS been that way.  There's just more people around to notice now.  That massive field attack in "fighter town" that irritates you so much...  That style of attack goes back to the early days of AW according to the people who were there, so HTC has had ample time to "do something" about it if it were unacceptable.  But so far, there have been few game design features specifically intended to alter gameplay.  Examples of those features are the shore battery guns, large amount of fleet ack, distances between fields, behavior of guns in bombers, bomber "formations", presence or lack of "otto" bomber gunners in various game versions, etc.

If FT field attacks were somehow detrimental to the game, you can bet HTC would do something about it.  But in spite of over 2 years of requests to harden FT fields, they haven't...

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by AKWarp
[B

Taking an FT base counts to base totals.  Taking the FT bases is good....two bases right there that are hard to get to, easily defended.  Makes great tactical sense.

Fly ages to a fight?  BWAHA, please.  15 minutes to a fight?  Yeah, right.  If you ain't got time, then why play?

 
"Tactical ERROR sumed up..... Taking 1 base to loose thirty plus = NOT GOOD"

  Taking one base did not lose us thirty.  We lost 30 bases because the bish had us outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 all next morning and day.

  If the furballers just want to fly fighters, great, so why can't they come along with the land grabbers when they fly bombers to take fields and escort them, fight all the fighters that come up, etc?  That way everyone gets a good deal.  Better yet, the FT arena is a better idea because it seems the "FT Gang" just wants ultra convenient, perk building, vulcheramas within 30 seconds of lift off...   [/B]

First let me say I think I've been to the FT portion of the map exactly twice since this map was introduced. So its not like Im a regular there. I do all sorts of things, from landgrabbing to GVing to strat. Im into any and all aspects of the game depending on my mood at that particular moment in time.
But still. I only very very very rarely spend time in FT.
Having, or not having a FT has no effect on me whatsoever.

That being said

The map in question was designed specifically so that the landgrabbers/strat/gv guys and the furballers could each have what they wanted.

The FT area was specifically placed where it was so the furballers could have their own area that didn't interfere with the landgrabbers and vice verse.
And anyone who has been here more then a few months knows and understands that. the FT area is supposed to be unofficially off limits in the land grab attempt.
basically anyone with a brain and has been here a while knows and understands this

Hordeing and capturing any base in the FT area is lame and classless at best.
the only REAL reason  and motivation to take one of these bases is to be a jerk and  to piss people off.
I only use that term because HT and Co would edit me heavily if I used the more accurate description.

There is no other reason. the reasoning of "because it counts for base totals easily defended etc etc" is lame at best not to mention an outright lie.

Strategically speaking, they are insignificant. Taking them makes little to no Spence whatsoever in "winning the war" or to keep from loosing the war for that matter.

Owning all 3 wont keep you from loosing, They would be difficult to mount any kind of meaningful counterattack from.
And offensively they serve no purpose.
They dont help you do anything.

Therefore there is 1 and only 1 reason to take the FT bases. and that's to be a  (insert favorite derogatory expletive here)

While I agree the furballers could also have their furball by joining in in the landgrab both on offence and defense. the bottom line is for many THEY DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF THE LANDGRAB  in any way, shape, or form and thus those that do not. shouldn't be forced into it just as the landgrabbers shouldn't be forced to only furball.

In the end if it were honestly stated. Taking the bases in the FT area isnt about the cause of winning the war. it isnt  for the cause of having bases that are easily defended, it isnt about the greater good of the country or game. That entire line of argument is BS

Its about intentionally trying to be a jerk and to piss people off. That's really the long and short of it.

Any other claim is an outright lie

[Simaril]

Originally posted by AKWarp

...snip...

   Oh yes, please tell us more about that.  Tell us about the whiners that only want their little FT village to themselves and no one is to bomb it or capture it...please, go on, tell me about respect for certain styles of play.

   

Warp,

At my AH developmental level, I'm still struggling to learn fighter techniques. I started doing mostly bomber work, and honestly one of the biggest rushes I've had was a GHOSTS squad op where (after lots of training work in TA) we had troopers in the air literally 90secs after we showed on dar bar.

But saturate the sky "iron rain" missions dont interest me now. Now I want to learn to fight better.

And despite your implication, there is simply NOTHING in AH, on any other map, that comes close to FT for fighter practice. If you've tried it, you'll see what I mean.

In FT, you can be in the middle of a fight literally 30 secs after taking off. Everybody starts with identical bases, at identical ranges, so alt monkeys cant dominate action like they do in most big fights that push into enemy territory. When I die, instead of 5-6 minutes of  climbout to get back to the average fight, I'm right  right back in it literally a minute later. Instead of 20% AH time spent actually fighting, in FT I get closer to 90%. It's that much more efficient.And, its supposed to be always there.


Bottom line is that I can get more practice -- and learn more -- ina week of  Donut work that I can in a month of any other map. I look forward to FT rotations for this very reason -- I get more opportunity to practice the things I'm trying to get better at, in ways I cant for the rest of the time.


I'm despereately trying to get better at this stuff, and to be honest it [advance de-skuzzification edit] disturbs me greatly that the buff riders feel so righteously justified in wiping out the FT balance.

Why is this path one you're even interested in? Why cant you kill BHs or just capture a different base? [insert whiney voice] Why do you have to hurt me? [/whiney]

And how woudl you feel if someone routinely announced your missions, so you couldnt do the things you like? Its IS the exact equivalent --


so I'll quote:

originally posted by drediock
In the end if it were honestly stated. Taking the bases in the FT area isnt about the cause of winning the war. it isnt for the cause of having bases that are easily defended, it is about the greater good of the country or game. That entire line of argument is BS

Its about intentionally trying to be a jerk and to piss people off. That's really the long and short of it.

Any other claim is an outright lie

[By the way, Warpy, I would ask you to consider your definition of a fight. A huge DAR bar swarming a lightly defended base, or one with only low alt disadvantaged enemy, isnt a fight at all. It's a culling, and I cant learn anything there. Equal advantge fights, with equal numbers and alts, are as rare as hen's teeth in the MA.]

[Simaril]

Originally posted by eagl
snip

 They're playing by the rules HTC set up when they designed the game and the arena, and too bad so sorry but their opinion on proper gameplay is just as valid as yours.  snip

Eagl, you're point is completely valid. I dont think most of the guys talking about this are thinking FT capture is morally wrong, or immoral, or an incorrect application of HTC rules.



Its more that doing it is rude and selfish.




Apply your logic to another situation, and you'll see your argument doesnt stand up.

WHAT IF SOMEONE WERE TO WATCH THE MISSION PLANNER, AND THE MAP, IN ORDER TO ANNOUNCE EVERY MISSION ON CHANNEL 200?


Its legal.

It is something that HTC has allowed in their system from the beginning.

It might give someone a demented pleasure, and if it helped tehm enjoy their $15 a month it would be a perfectly valid way to play.

After all,

"It's a freaking sandbox, so there is no right or wrong way to play, period."

But announcing missions would ruin them, and it would be rude to interfere with mission guys' fun for no apparent reason. In the same way, taking out FT hangars rudely interferes with others simply for the joy of doing it.


So let me ask you, Eagl and the LCA fighter town destroyers -- is that the kind of AH you want? I sincerely hope not.

Lets just treat each other with respect, and try not to get in each others' way. That way we can ALL have fun playing.

[Bruv119]

No wonder this map got pulled out of the rotation.

I assume the map designers wanted to have a place where people could dogfight and  GVer's could play around the rings of V bases. (to keep everyone happy)

I really like this map as it is fast paced and you can find a fight easy.

All you guys that argue over what is right and wrong in Fighter town need to take a time out.

Taking a base in fighter town is disrespectful and as Lynx pointed out it resulted in rooks gettting slapped by Bish looking for revenge.

Big salute to the guys who rectified it.  

The people who want troops disabled in fighter town have a valid point but that is weak in my point of view.  The community just needs to rise above trying to annoy each other and hopefully there are more people who would want to re-take a base in FT rather than capture.


Bruv
~S~