Rooks Wanted For Mission Alliance

[AKWarp]

"It was enough to make me go Knights"

Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out....

"I am obviously not making myself clear"

 No, I understood exactly what you attempted to say...and I disagree, simple enough?

"You are True to say we were nearly out numbered 2 to 1 but it woulda been less if the Bish furballers were happilly tucked up in their FT world"

 Perhaps a little less, but we would have still been outnumbered a fair bit

"I as a Rook had to deal the effects of this FT ERROR while your still in bed"

I'm retired, I play morning, day or night whatever I feel. I've been on at all hours of the day, so I'm well aware of when teams numbers are usually higher or lower...and you aren't the only one out there saving the Rook world single handedly...

"All I ask is you apply the field captures to where it is Tactically needed. Shooting your self in the foot and not understanding that you actually shot yourself in the foot is ...well ermm"

Then maybe you should engage the safety on yer gun....



"the reasoning of "because it counts for base totals easily defended etc etc" is lame at best not to mention an outright lie."

No more so than the BS claim of "can't find fights without FT" "Have to fly 15 or 20 mins to get a fight" blah blah blah

"Strategically speaking, they are insignificant. Taking them makes little to no Spence [sic] whatsoever in "winning the war" or to keep from loosing [sic] the war for that matter"

Odd, we just won the damn war by taking an FT base....


"In the end if it were honestly stated. Taking the bases in the FT area isnt about the cause of winning the war. it isnt for the cause of having bases that are easily defended, it isnt about the greater good of the country or game. That entire line of argument is BS"

No different than the BS the furballers cry about (see above)

"And despite your implication, there is simply NOTHING in AH, on any other map, that comes close to FT for fighter practice. If you've tried it, you'll see what I mean"

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.  It's a score padding vulchfest.  Numbers are rarely if ever even (as the furballers like to try and claim for "learning to fight purposes").  Sorry, that dog don't hunt.

"Bottom line is that I can get more practice -- and learn more -- ina week of Donut work that I can in a month of any other map. I look forward to FT rotations for this very reason -- I get more opportunity to practice the things I'm trying to get better at, in ways I cant for the rest of the time"

That feature is already built into the game...it's called the TA.  It even has various field configurations for you to fight in different settings, etc.  Worst case scenario, the "FT" fields should have troops, buff, etc disabled, or have all buildings non destructable.   Then no one can piss in your wheaties.

"Why is this path one you're even interested in? Why cant you kill BHs or just capture a different base? [insert whiney voice] Why do you have to hurt me? [/whiney]"

Why is it even an issue?  It's the MA, the primary goal for the game is to take the bases, if it weren't the war couldn't be won, it wouldn't be the "game".
 
"And how woudl you feel if someone routinely announced your missions, so you couldnt do the things you like? Its IS the exact equivalent -- "

It happens all the time...they're called spies.  People routinely "game the game" by using exploits and bugs.  Been happening since day one.  


"As of about an hour ago the lamer Rook Horde still hadnt won. In spite of having 130 players more then the Knits at one point during the night.

At one point Rooks had over 260. Neither Bish nor knit numbers where anywhere near that number and still took yas 4 hours to get knits from 14 bases to 10"

Lessee...we took the FT base and won the war a few minutes ago....apparently taking one the other night didn't lose it for us either.  Since when were we put under a timer as to how fast it had to be done?  

[JUDE69]

Well tonite we finished the war by talking the knights FT...was it tacticaly good move??.i would say yes it is!!!!!

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by AKWarp
[B [/B]

Odd, we just won the damn war by taking an FT base....

Ok I'll give you that. At the end it makes sense to end the war take FT base when you cant figure out how, or are too inept to do it any other way.
So for your benefit I will rephrase my entire statement on the matter.
but the bulk of what I said still stands as true

Until that point is reached where the end of the "war" is so near that the capture of one or two bases will bring it to an inevitable conclusion
Until that point,Strategically speaking, they are insignificant. Taking them makes little to no Spence [sic] whatsoever in "winning the war" or to keep from loosing [sic] the war for that matter
In the end if it were honestly stated. Taking the bases in the FT area while there are a significant amount of other bases left isnt about the cause of winning the war. it isnt for the cause of having bases that are easily defended, it isnt about the greater good of the country or game. That entire line of argument is BS
Until it reaches the point where there are only a few bases left too be taken and the "war" is a forgone conclusion and/ or you cant figure out a way to do it any other way.
Its about intentionally trying to be a jerk and to piss people off. That's really the long and short of it.

Any other claim is an outright lie

There, Happy now?


"No more so than the BS claim of "can't find fights without FT" "Have to fly 15 or 20 mins to get a fight" blah blah blah"
No different than the BS the furballers cry about (see above)

See now you might find this hard to believe but I've always agreed that, That statement is also BS. Even on Pizza I've felt that claim is BS.

But What your not getting is the furballers do not want to take part of, or be a part of the landgrab in any way, shape, or form.
That is the entire reason why this particular map was designed the way is was with a FT so that the people who dont want to be a part of the landgrab can do so without effecting the landgrab and the landgrabbers can take all the bases they want and "win the war" without having to interfere with the furballers.
It was made that way so everyone could play the game the way they wanted to play it. All that's needed for it to work is for the players to have a little respect for other people.
You dont NEED to take a FT base to win the war.
The only reason to take a FT base is to be a jerk, piss people off, show a total lack of respect for other players who do not want to be forced into playing the way you want to play. Or because you cant figure out a way to do it any other way.
And I'll say it again. To claim it is for any other reason it an outright lie



Lessee...we took the FT base and won the war a few minutes ago....apparently taking one the other night didn't lose it for us either. Since when were we put under a timer as to how fast it had to be done?

See above.
Your not under a timer. But time is a very good indicater as to how well a horde is performing.
Time is important because you only have so long before people start logging off
Last night was the exeption to the norm as typically if a map isnt reset by 1:00 AM ETS it doesn't get reset until well into daylight hours at the earliest. If it gets reset.
I wasn't there but my guess is FT was captured because it was the easiest way to finish the map off before time ran out.

In closing. If you go through my posts over the years You will see a few things
I've always maintained ENY wasn't going to work.
And with all due respect to HTC.
 It doesnt.
At least not the way it needs to.
And I didnt think any side should have limitations as for plane choice in non perked rides.


I typically want and try to argue for whats fair for everyone, and not just one side or the other.

More times then not I am on the side of the landgrabbers when it comes to the subject of base captures.
This map is the exeption to that
ANY other map and I would agree they are all fair game.
but this map was designed (not by me) to be as fair as possible to everyone.
Any other map I would be on the side of the landgrabbers in this arguement.
Now as I've mentioned in another post. I dont spend a lot of time in Ft.
In fact you could probably count on 1 hand the amount of times I've even launched a plane from FT and have some fingers left over
So really FT doesnt effect me personally one way or the other.
But on this map. The landgrabbers that insist on taking FT fields for ANY reason are wrong. Dead wrong.

Personally I think HTC should map the FT bases uncaptureable and unporkable
Actually if it were up to me each side would have to uncaptureable and unporkable bases. One at a FT location. and the other would be the air base closest base to HQ. And neither should count towards the basecount in fields needed to win/loose the war. So  in effect all you would have to do is get a country down to 5 bases left, the two unporkable/capturable ones and three regular (Captureable) bases.

I cant understand why HTC doesn't do that ( at least in FT) as I doubt many, if any would object to it and it would solve a whole bunch of arguments in one fell swoop with the least amount of whines one way or the other about it

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by JUDE69
Well tonite we finished the war by talking the knights FT...was it tacticaly good move??.i would say yes it is!!!!!

See my above post.

Tactically good perhaps to end the war fast before you lost too many numbers.

Still pretty lame though
and you WON the WAR!!

Goodie goodie.

So tell us.
what exactly did you win?

A big trophy?
A plaque with your name on it?
A cutsie blue ribbon?
A cookie?

What? what did you win?

[Vudak]

DokGonzo,

I'd just like to point out that any fellow who hides a CV at the top of a map, or resorts to "spying" is probably one of the valiant
"Win the Warrior[e]s", and not one of the guys who just wants a FT around for a quick fight.

The only time I've ever seen a FT-type guy "spy" was the time Zazen took control of an enemy cv because the enemy was taking advantage of an unfair loophole/bug.

And, to other people:

It is true that you can find a fight without FT.  However, FT is still the quickest source to action on some maps and is a very convenient place to meet up with like-minded people.  Without it, it's a crapshoot as to where you can run into all the same people in one place.  It's just easier, ok?

I don't really see what the big deal is with leaving FT alone at least until your country's one or two bases away from reset.  At that time, go ahead and blow it out of the water.

What do we have to do to have fun of our own away from this constant landgrabbing?  Do we really have to organize ourselves to take cannons and bombs and knock out horder's fun by taking out troops and ordinance on the entire map?

Can't we just avoid that and chill in our own little place while the rest of you blow up each others' hangars?

[96Delta]

Couldn't help but notice that the bulk of the pilots who attacked and seized the Knight base in Fightertown (A21) were from the Loose Cannons Alliance.

Congratulations LCA!
Well done.  :aok

[Vudak]

Originally posted by 96Delta
Couldn't help but notice that the bulk of the pilots who attacked and seized the Knight base in Fightertown (A21) were from the Loose Cannons Alliance.

Congratulations LCA!
Well done.  :aok

Your little LCA symbol/avatar does great justice to your joy of this

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by 96Delta
Couldn't help but notice that the bulk of the pilots who attacked and seized the Knight base in Fightertown (A21) were from the Loose Cannons Alliance.

Congratulations LCA!
Well done.  :aok

I note the emphasis the race to the reset folks are putting on capturing FT bases in these posts.  Anything to justify it I guess.  

I'll assume you are smart enough to recognize why FT was put in the map so the 'we have to capture it to win the war' BS is exactly that.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by StracCop
You left out the most important word guys...I wonder why some people never figure this out...

Its not skill..
Its not sad..
and its not win..

the word is FUN!

It was fun the horde the last few bases.  And, well, thats why I plunk down my cash every month to play this game...for the fun.  May not be fun for you, but it was a hoot for me!

You made no mention of fun in your post.  Your post was about 'winning the war".  

You are correct however, it is about fun.  And there is nothing fun about being outnumbered like that and either having to fly forever just to get up from a field with about being vulched or having to attempt to up from capped bases.

This is a game not a war.  No one is dying, there is no risk.  A game should be fun for everyone playing it.

When I was a kid my buddies and I played lots of sports.  I don't ever recall setting up teams for a game that involved playing 10 on 5 in football or 5 on 2 in basketball.  Had we done that, there is no question the team with 10 guys would always beat the team with 5.  It might be 'fun' for a little bit, but the challenge would be gone in a hurry as there is no way the team with 5 is going to be able to cover all the guys on the team with 10.  So you set the teams as even as you could so it would be a challenge and fun for all.

This is why I went Knights last night after being Rooks for so long.  It just wasn't fair with the numbers the way they were and it wouldn't have been fun to me to be part of such a numbers differrence.

And I always remember that if you went to shoot hoops with your buddies and got to the court you respected any other guys playing on the same court.  If they were playing a pick up game at one end, and you just wanted to shoot hoops at the other, you didn't demand they get off the court or force yourself into their fun, you used the other part of the court to do your thing.
Sometimes you'd try and organize a game that could include everyone, but if they didn't want to play, you didn't deliberately interfere with what they were doing, you just kept to your part of the court.  

Seems to me that's the mentality behind the FT part of the map.  The guys who just want to up and turn and burn can do so without interfering with the guys who want to land grab, strat, or whatever.  Neither 'team' has to interfere with the other.  But instead we've got a group of people who seem intent on forcing folks to play the game they are playing, their way, with little thought to whether it would be 'fun' for those folks.

Bottom line is you are right it's all about 'having fun'.  But you need to include everyone in the fun, beyond just the folks who think playing the game your way is the only way to have fun.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Vudak
DokGonzo,

I'd just like to point out that any fellow who hides a CV at the top of a map, or resorts to "spying" is probably one of the valiant
"Win the Warrior[e]s", and not one of the guys who just wants a FT around for a quick fight.

The only time I've ever seen a FT-type guy "spy" was the time Zazen took control of an enemy cv because the enemy was taking advantage of an unfair loophole/bug.

...

I disagree. If you're right what possible reason is there for bombing barracks, ord, radar, town, and hangars in FT? And all sides do it all the time - when I get phone ack I sit in the field guns there sometimes and just pop the lawndarts as the roll in. Those assets mean next to nothing out over the pond.

One thing that's real key in these kinds of discussions is to step outside your own individual intent and really look at what other people are doing around you. For me personally, if FT provided any kind of respite from the torrential idiocy experienced elsewhere in the MA I'd play there too, bad frame rate and all. But it doesn't.


We all know that the end-of-war frenzy is probably the least effective time for a side. No one is bringing or escorting goons because they want to pad their scores with vultch kills. Likewise no one is killing the town or CAP'ing the launch base. And then all the fair weather fliers are milling about and don't know anyone or what they should be doing. And don't forget all those great "team players" sitting in the tower, wanking it to the Sheep Channel on cable, waiting for the reset ... they pad the odds too. So all it takes is a couple of 262's or 163's to delay The Horde. At these times the FT base is often the quickest way to reset the map. And, frankly, when the map is one base away from a reset its no fun for either side - better to end the damn thing already.


I agree with Dred that if you want FT to be just about furballing, then just make all ground assets there immune to damage (or something to that effect). Then there's no reason to bomb or pork and vultching gets more dangerous. Hell, remove any plane with an ENY below 20 while you're at it so people actually have to fly instead of HO ... hehe.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo


I agree with Dred that if you want FT to be just about furballing, then just make all ground assets there immune to damage (or something to that effect). Then there's no reason to bomb or pork and vultching gets more dangerous. Hell, remove any plane with an ENY below 20 while you're at it so people actually have to fly instead of HO ... hehe.

It's not for lack of asking for this because that would solve the problem completely.  HTC apparently have reasons for not doing so.

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by StracCop
The LCA isn't a squad and therefore doesn't have members.
There are several non-squad affiliated players who wanted to formally link themselves with the LCA so we formed a 'squad' so those players could add the tag to their name.  But the LCA tag is just the tip of the ice berg.  There are many, many others who are in their own squads who are members of the Allaince.

Furst the main Arena...THEN...the Wurld!!  muhahahahahah!

I'd would note..that this same map, where the taking of FT cost the Rooks some 30-odd bases  in revenge takings, and been the subject of this topic for some time now.... was won by the Rooks Sunday night....late....... when the Rooks captured FT.....with "some help" from the LCA....

Oh...the irony.....

You Knits put up a heck of a fight near the end there in the south.
Forced us to take your FT for the win just to change that frikin' map finally.

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
As of about an hour ago the lamer Rook Horde still hadnt won. In spite of having 130 players more then the Knits at one point during the night.

At one point Rooks had over 260. Neither Bish nor knit numbers where anywhere near that number and still took yas 4 hours to get knits from 14 bases to 10.

LMAO some skill

"The lamer Rook Horde" was hamstrung with a ENY over 24..... would have been over much quicker if many of your loyal Knit and Bish players hadn't come over to our side at the end of the map again.

[Spiffing]

If High Tech ACCIDENTALLY  created 3 large bases - evenly spaced with a central meeting place for combat completely free of Ak, GV’s and the like……..

AND if he ACCIDENTALLY  surrounded it by 20k mountains for protection from the outside war, and then surrounded that with VH bases and no airfields………

And if he ACCIDENTALLY  created this fighter town in response to requests for quick furball action within a MA arena on at least one map only……..

THEN and ONLY then would base taking, vulching etc be totally acceptable.

HOWEVER, it is obvious this is not the case and everyone knows it. You can spin it, blame the other team for they’re dum mistakes, and cry revenge all you like, but the fact is this part of this map is for furballers and folks who want decent air combat free of responsibility of attacking or defending bases as part of the larger war. Why argue.

It is obvious why FT is there, don’t kid yourself that taking bases is legitimate; it’s weak and does you no favors.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Spiffing
.... but the fact is this part of this map is for furballers and folks who want decent air combat free of responsibility of attacking or defending bases  ...

Then why are people blowing up outhouses in FT? If anything ruins FT for me as far as a place to practice and hone ACM it's having to deal with the same pork, vultch, and HO dweebs as every place else.

I'm not arguing what FT *should* be there for, but you guys describe it as one step below Galland's Valhalla and anyone who visits it can see it's maybe one step above the little car at the circus that the 20 clowns pile out of.

I'm not trying to justify capturing FT except as the end game to reset the map (which usually stabilizes the odds). But look at it this way, you FT guys seem to condone spying because you don't care about missions; well the folks who are into the war see your FT bases as just another target of opportunity.

I personally would have no problem telling Rooks who say "lets capture FT" to not do it (again, except if it'll reset the map and end the boredom) if I had the slightest hope that the people on the other sides would similarly tell people not to spy, hide CV's, etc. etc. Just because you're in FT doesn't mean you can't call someone on your country out as a scumwaffle when he announces that he just hid a CV or whatever.