Author Topic: They think we're fools?  (Read 2270 times)

Offline Mini D

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They think we're fools?
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2006, 02:29:23 AM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 05:37:59 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline Toad

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They think we're fools?
« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2006, 08:57:31 AM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 05:37:42 PM by Skuzzy »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Softail

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They think we're fools?
« Reply #92 on: March 18, 2006, 09:36:54 PM »
Ah.. Intel, Guns and the mythical "Explosive Decompression."

I LOVE reading this stuff.  Very entertaining ;-)

Almost as good as CNN ... Keep it coming ;-)

Thanks.

Softail

Offline Schwein

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They think we're fools?
« Reply #93 on: March 19, 2006, 02:57:57 AM »
The aircraft was packed and bound for Spain. Then the windscreen blew and the captain was sucked out. Nigel Ogden, who saved him by hanging on to his legs, tells his story for the first time to Julia Llewellyn Smith.

It was like something from a disaster movie and I still find it hard to believe I was at the centre of it all. An aircraft full of passengers, out of control at 17,000 feet with the captain stuck outside.

I think about what happened every day. It was Sunday, June 10, 1990. It was a beautiful morning and I was up early because I was working on the British Airways 7.30am flight from Birmingham to Malaga. I was 36, had been an air steward with BA for 12 years, and loved my job with a passion.

I expected that day to be especially enjoyable. It was a holiday flight, so the 81 passengers would be relaxed, and the crew - Captain Tim Lancaster, stewards Simon Rogers and John Heward, and stewardess Sue Prince - had worked together, on and off, for years. The only member of the crew new to us was the co-pilot, Alistair Atcheson. The aircraft was a 43-tonne BAC 1-11, which was known as the jeep of the skies, because it was a workhorse - reliable and easy to maintain.

The flight was delayed for an hour, so I wandered up and down the plane, making sure everyone knew what was going on. Tim made an announcement - "You'll be pleased to know the weather is sunny and dry in Malaga and we should be on our way shortly" - then the dispatcher told us we could leave. We did the safety briefing and Simon and I strapped ourselves into our jump seats, chatting about which team had lost at rugby the previous day. We heard the roaring of the engines and then we were up in the air.

It was 13 minutes after take-off and we had just reached 17,300 feet, 5000 feet beneath our assigned altitude. I went onto the flight deck and asked if they'd like tea. I was just stepping out, with my hand on the door handle, when there was an enormous explosion and the door was blown out of my hands. I thought, "My God. It's a bomb." Explosive decompression made the whole cabin mist up like fog for a second - then the plane started to plummet.

I whipped round, peering through the mist, and saw the front windscreen had disappeared and Tim, the pilot, was going out through it. He had been sucked out of his seatbelt and all I could see were his legs. I jumped over the control column and grabbed him round his waist to avoid him going out completely. His shirt had been pulled off his back and his body was bent upwards, doubled over round the top of the aircraft. His legs were jammed forward, disconnecting the autopilot, and the flight door was resting on the controls, sending the plane hurtling down at nearly 643km/h through some of the most congested skies in the world.

Everything was being sucked out of the aircraft: even an oxygen bottle that had been bolted down went flying and nearly knocked my head off. I was holding on for grim death but I could feel myself being sucked out too. John rushed in behind me and saw me disappearing, so he grabbed my trouser belt to stop me slipping further, then wrapped the captain's shoulder strap around me. Luckily, Alistair, the co-pilot, was still wearing his safety harness from take-off, otherwise he would have gone, too.

The aircraft was losing height so quickly that the pressure soon equalised and the wind started rushing in - at 627km/h and -17C. Paper was blowing round all over the place and it was impossible for Alistair to hear air-traffic control. We were spiralling down at 80 feet per second with no autopilot and no radio.

I was still holding on to Tim but the pressure made him weigh the equivalent of 226 kilograms. It was a good thing I'd had so much training at rugby tackles, but my arms were getting colder and colder and I could feel them being pulled out of their sockets.

Simon came rushing through and, with John, managed to unwrap Tim's legs and the remains of the doors from the controls, and Alistair got the autopilot back on. But still he continued to increase speed, to lessen the risk of a mid-air collision and to get us down to an altitude where there was more oxygen. He dived to 11,000 feet in two-and-a-half minutes, then finally got the speed down to 300km/h.

I was still holding Tim, but my arms were getting weaker, and then he slipped. I thought I was going to lose him, but he ended up bent in a U-shape around the windows. His face was banging against the windscreen with blood coming out of his nose and the side of his head, his arms were flailing and seemed about 1.8 metre long. Most terrifyingly, although his face was hitting the side screen, his eyes were wide open. I'll never forget that sight as long as I live.

I couldn't hold on any more, so Simon strapped himself into the third pilot's seat and hooked Tim's feet over the back of the captain's seat and held on to his ankles. One of the others said: "We're going to have to let him go." I said: "I'll never do that." I knew I wouldn't be able to face his family, handing them a matchbox and saying: "This is what is left of your husband." If we'd let go of his body, it might have got jammed in a wing or the engines.

I left Simon hanging on to Tim and staggered back into the main cabin. For a moment, I just sat totally exhausted in a jump seat, my head in my hands, then Sue came up to me, very shaken. In front of all the passengers, I put my arms around her and whispered in her ear: "I think the Captain's dead." But then I said: "Come on, love, we've got a job to do."

By now, Alistair was talking to air-traffic control, who were talking him through landing at Southampton airport. All pilot training is done on the basis of two pilots, one to fly and one doing the emergency drill, but Alistair was alone, with a crew he didn't know and relying entirely on memory, because all the manuals and charts had blown away. He asked for a runway of 2500 metres because he was worried that the plane was so heavy with fuel, a tyre would burst or it would go off the runway, but they said all they could offer was 1800m.

Over the intercom he told the passengers we'd lost the windscreen. Some of them could see Tim out of the window but the cabin was silent as the grave. We walked up and down, preparing the passengers for an emergency landing. People gasped as they saw the blood on my face. The place was very shuddery, very rocky. I remember one man at the very back, with a little baby on his knee, saying to me: "We're going to die," and I said: "No, we are not," lying through my teeth.

All I could see out of the windows was a line of trees, and I thought we'd either smash into those or into the housing estate beyond. I had a partner, Jean, and a stepson, Jamie, but I was thinking most about my mum. She'd lost my brother in a car crash the year before, and I couldn't bear to think how she'd take the news. But, in spite of everything, Alistair did the most amazing landing, what we call a greaser - completely smooth and stopping the aircraft only three-quarters of the way down the runway.

There wasn't even any need to use the emergency chutes. We got all the passengers down the steps in an orderly fashion, although I did have to shout at a couple of people who were trying to get their handbags from the lockers. The whole time from the explosion to the landing had been 18 minutes, but it seemed like hours.

I got back on board to check everyone had left. The paramedics had Tim in the cockpit on a stretcher and I went in to see him. He was lying there, covered in blood, but to my amazement I heard him say: "I want to eat." I just exclaimed: "Typical bloody pilot." Luckily, he'd been in a coma throughout the ordeal, his body had just shut down. I went out onto the front steps, and shouted at the others "He's alive!" and then I cried my eyes out.

We learned that all but six of the passengers were still going to travel on to Malaga that afternoon. John and I went into the departure area to see them. I applauded them and they applauded us. I said: "I'm sorry, don't fly British Airways again."

I was left with a dislocated shoulder, a frostbitten face and some frostbite damage to my left eye that still persists. Amazingly, Tim only suffered from frostbite, fractures in his arm and wrist and a broken thumb. Within five months he was flying again and today he's a pilot for easyJet. Alistair and John are still with BA, but Sue and Simon no longer fly.

My mother and I went on a round-the-world trip and I was back at work by October, but it was never the same. I started getting spots all over my body. In February, I had to be hospitalised with psoriasis brought on by post-traumatic stress. It made it difficult for me to work with people as it was so unsightly, and then I started to have a problem with alcohol as well. I used to love going into work - now I hated it.

In 1992, a report was published about the accident. It turned out that a BA engineer, working under pressure, had fitted a new windscreen with bolts that were too small. I was absolutely livid, and withdrew into myself. It took us nine years of fighting to get some small compensation from the airline. Eventually, in 2001, I took early retirement on grounds of ill health. Now I'm a night watchman at a Salvation Army hospital.

This was the fourth time in my career that I had laid my life on the line. There had been an incident leaving Gerona in a thunderstorm, when we found ourselves flying at only 2000 feet above mountains. Another time, the engine blew out on take-off from Perth and we nearly hit a pylon; a third time a hold door fell out just as we were coming off the ground at Zurich. Some people tell me I must be jinxed to have had so many bad experiences. But I think it's amazing I've been through all this and am still alive. I'm not jinxed, I'm a survivor.

- Sunday Telegraph

Offline Schwein

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They think we're fools?
« Reply #94 on: March 19, 2006, 03:01:16 AM »


An official inspects the hole in the British Airways jet where the windsreen used to be.




Pilot Tim Lancaster (third from left) recovers in hospital. Nigel Ogden is standing on the right.




Hmm ... 17000 feet. What would have happened at 30000?

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #95 on: March 19, 2006, 09:22:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
IF there's a dip**** in here, that would be you. And thanks for repeatedly proving it. Let's see....your best arguments so far have been that:



Shows your true skills, nature and personality, doesn't it, along with your confidence in your argument? Went for the ad hominem right off the bat. Congrats, you are a mental giant that we worship.
Ummm... right... as you continue being obtuse.
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ONE...repeat one....ONE Aloha F/A got "sucked out" because she was standing 5 feet from the initial skin separation according to the NTSB report. The others, standing about 20 feet from the hole got knocked down. Sort of ruins your entire "hollywood disaster movie" scenario doesn't it?
Actually, that's your "hollywood disaster movie" scenario. I never said anything like that. You keep insisting I did. See the definition of "obtuse" again.

There was enough force, to pick her up off of her feet. The hole was small enough that she did not fit through it and got stuck. I've repeatedly said that it wouldn't be as bad away from the actual penetration, but the collection of rushing air will have higher forces near it. You keep saying "hollywood says different" and then pretend that's my view.
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The Aloha, like the UAL, landed AFTER catastrophic structural damage AND decompression. Got that? No crash, minimal loss of life and a safe landing.
Where did I say everyone would die? Where did I say the plane could not make it back down? And what the hell is this "minimal loss of life"? Are you even comprehending what you're writing here?
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The case you are trying to make doesn't stand up against real life actual incidents. There have been flights with near instantaneous structural damage coupled with explosive decompression at altitude. NEITHER aircraft was lost and there was relatively minimal loss of life. Both of these aircraft were high time, with 15,028 flight cycles/58K hours on the 747 and 89,680 flight cycles/35,496 hours on the 737.
Actually, these incidents do support my view on the subject. They also make you go from words like "impossible" to "minimal". Nobody said it was a frequently occuring event. But any situation that is brought on by the stress of wear and vibration is going to face the same risks as an impact.
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These were old aircraft, old structures. The suffered catastrophic structural failure AND explosive decompresson and landed safely.

Got it figured out yet?
After people were sucked out of them. I guess that it wasn't everyone makes it OK? Got that?

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As for your "one bullet" theory, go ahead and tell me which spar, amongst the literally thousands of spars in an aircraft, is THE critical one. The one that will cause serious structural failure and possible loss of the aircraft if a .45 hole suddenly appears in it and its covering aluminum skin.

Which one is that?
Ask murphy. And look up the meaning of "golden bb".
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In considering your answer, please remember that almost every spar is already drilled, several times, with holes to reduce weight. Most of the holes are quite a bit larger than .45 caliber.
Have you ever worked on aircraft before toad? I mean really? I wish I'd seen this when you originally posted it, because it exemplifies your ignorance. What do you do when you have a minor crack developing, but doesn't exceed whatever the "maximum crack lenght" criterea is? You "stop-drill" it. Do you know why? This enables the stress of the crack to dissipate over an area and does not provide a clean path to reform. Drilling a hole in something does not reduce it's strenght unless it's at a key stress area. Now shoot a bullet through a piece of aluminum and see if any cracks form. You're complete and total lack of structural  undestanding simply astounds me. "bigger drilled holes than bullet holes"? Wow.

Rapid decompressions do not happen often (as I've said in this thread many times). But you cannot deny that there is an increased risk when you start introducing variables such as the destruction caused by a bullet. That is why they initially started shooting bullets at aircraft to bring them down. Keep up the switch to terms like "minimal", they begin to shed some light on your lack of an argument here.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 09:45:23 AM by Mini D »

Offline Schwein

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They think we're fools?
« Reply #96 on: March 26, 2006, 12:18:48 PM »
Well Toad? Care to respond?

Offline Schwein

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They think we're fools?
« Reply #97 on: March 27, 2006, 11:25:53 AM »
Didn't think so. :rolleyes:

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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They think we're fools?
« Reply #98 on: March 27, 2006, 05:20:01 PM »
:O Aren't you guys a sad read.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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