Hello again Crow,
I'll split this into two replies so it isn't unreadably long...
Originally posted by crowMAW
LOL...that is exactly correct. Very intuitive. I'll probably do a little demythologizing later in this post.
It's ok, I used to do the same thing myself to a certain extent, please understand of course that it works in the other direction on my side.
BTW...please forgive that I am going to snip some of your post. It is for brevity only and know that I am taking all of what you wrote in whole.
No prob, I'm doing the same thing in this post.
I would put it to you that the rate of becoming sanctified is not the same for all. As such, again I would say that the struggling Christian is no more trustworthy than a non-Christian. It is possible that those who are progressing more slowly may be less trustworthy than a non-Christian. And since sin is sin, the fact that the Christian may be repentant does not reduce the wrong committed even if it may satisfy his god.
Crow, that doesn't follow. If a someone really is a Christian, then they have accepted that there is a God and that He is not silent, and that they are now His children and desire to obey His will out of love and reverence for Him. They also know that part of His revealed will is that they not lie or go back on their promises and oaths. They also know that they can't "fool him" and do it without Him knowing (ironically one of things that Sartre's objected to most about Christianity was this "lack of privacy") for He knows all things. They also should have figured out that pragmatism counts for nothing, for instance Psalm 15:4 notes that a believer should be someone who
"swears to his own hurt and does not change" In other words, if I promise to pay you, but later learn that I can't do so without being financially hurt by doing so, I should still pay. So convenience isn't a factor. Even if he "struggles" with the sin of lying - and please note there is a difference between struggling and readily capitulating - those factors
must have a tremendous influence on him. For instance, think about the ways that those factors should influence the degree of importance we place on our wedding vows.
On the other hand, the Atheist declares there is no God, that all the values we have are positively, rather than objectively derived, that we must be pragmatic or even utilitarian when making decisions, that some things can be done without anyone in the universe other than ourselves and the person we do them with knowing, and that there is no final accounting. I don't believe I have to walk you through the ways that those concepts all tend to make one
more rather than
less likely to not keep a promise or the aforementioned wedding vow.
I see the outworking of that in our town all the time. Here in Fayetteville between 24-26% of the population are "churchgoing Christians" the rest are a mix of other religions, but the largest growth area we have are nominals (people who identify themselves with a religion but do not practice it), atheists, and agnostics, particularly amongst young enlisted soldiers and their families. The soldiers and particularly the SF guys in our congregation have a real problem in that when their units go "downrange" infidelity amongst the men is the norm rather than the exception. There is tremendous pressure even on the Christians to "lighten up and party with guys" and in some units it's even considered bad for cohesion and esprit not to go along.
Meanwhile at home, the wives of young soldiers often follow the same policy themselves. In fact it's so bad and prevalent that
the rule overseen by the sergeants is that when you return home from a TDY or deployment you
MUST CALL HOME FIRST before returning to your house. They are quite open in admitting that is so that you will not surprise your wife with another man or clear evidence of his presence and end up doing something to embarass the military or end your career.
Now the guys in my congregation are subject to temptation, but they do know that going along with the "guys" and being unfaithful to your wife is a grave sin, even when they aren't getting along, and there is pressure to do so, and its been a
long time since they've been home.
On the home front, the wives know the same thing, and both parties know we will help them and hold them accountable. To date, we've not suffered the way most of this town does. I'm not saying we've never had to deal with a violation of the 7th commandment, but I'm more than willing to say we are far less likely to have the problem and that our divorce rate is still 0% by the grace of God. Now you may be saying "big deal" but I'm talking about a community where the majority of guys are gone for between 6 to 9 month a year and the stress on marriages is phenomenal. The
majority of military marriages here fail in the first 7 years. And no, it's not because we've finally stumbled on the right Kool-Aid recipe.
Same vows, but there is one area where worldview makes a tremendous difference in whether you can be trusted to keep them...
- SEAGOON
