Author Topic: Illegal Immigrants (Read 2940 times)

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #90 on:** March 27, 2006, 10:12:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy

The Latino comunauty is fairly well known for helping each other, and is a fairy significant work force in USA. I agree they have no right to protest, but they have a political power, after all the Mayor of L.A. is Latino.

I think with close to a million taking to the streets in protest (despite what the majority in here think, the majority of the protesters were either US citizens or legal residents), we have shown that we are a political power, albeit one without a good leader. But that scares middle America and their Anglo sensibilities, they shudder and have nightmares at the thought of a Hispanic having any real political power.

You still in LA Frenchy? Moving up there next week myself, Marina Del Rey for a couple of months until I can find a place near Venice or Santa Monica.

ack-ack

Tarmac · « **Reply #91 on:** March 27, 2006, 10:30:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I think with close to a million taking to the streets in protest (despite what the majority in here think, the majority of the protesters were either US citizens or legal residents), we have shown that we are a political power, albeit one without a good leader. But that scares middle America and their Anglo sensibilities, they shudder and have nightmares at the thought of a Hispanic having any real political power.

ack-ack

We? Who's we? You're illegal too?

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #92 on:** March 27, 2006, 10:37:33 PM »

As illegal as you are Tarmac.

ack-ack

Tarmac · « **Reply #93 on:** March 27, 2006, 10:54:56 PM »

So who's this "we" that you refer to?

pasta · « **Reply #94 on:** March 27, 2006, 11:02:10 PM »

what if

Gov will remove all illegals from US
How its going to affect prices of food, transportation, labour
With lack hands to work prices are not going to sky rocket?

how much will cost to remove 12-14 milions of people from US?

thats only costs, what regular citizen going to earn on this new law?

Is not better to get money from them? They allready here.
Let them pay fine , give permit to work for limited time (with no benefits like welfer, uneployment support.) All this with chance to apply for green card.
If they pay taxes after 4-5 years give them chance to get green card, after another 5 years citizenship.

Goomba · « **Reply #95 on:** March 27, 2006, 11:24:55 PM »

Great. Criminal foreigners are a "political power". Excellent.

Which part, illegal or aliens, is so hard to grasp? There are LEGAL ways to come here. How can anyone rationalize that away? How can you consider yourself entitled to that which you have not earned? It simply isn't yours to demand, just because you decided you didn't like it at home.

Cripes, if I kicked in the back door and moved my family into your house tomorrow, against your will and without your permission, you'd still consider it my right? Welcome me with open arms, feed me, give me money because I demanded it? Knowingly breaking the law, then flatly demanding to be given your "rights", means you don't know the first thing about being American. It also isn't civilized behavior.

Oh, and thanks for the deep insight into my, and apparently everbody else's, psyche. How astute. Perhaps, since we're all alike anyway, it's easier to paint with a nice broad brush. What is it you call that when it's done to you? Anybody?

Frankly, I don't give a damn about a politician's ethnicity, just their honesty, integrity, and competence. Doesn't leave me lots of choices.

No one proposed throwing everyone out, and no one proposed stopping immigration. Reform to the system, and proper enforcement of the LIMITS, would be the proper thing to do.

However, no matter how much anyone says that immigration is a good thing, and immigrants are a valuable part of our society, there are those that will completely ignore those statements so they can continue to blow their horn, and wave the flag of their agenda.

Undocumented, unaccounted for, unvetted illegal immigrants are a problem. The solution is not some draconian clearing out, but some intelligent planning and implementation.

However, while those who can't live without a cause continue to scream for the sake of screaming, we won't get anywhere.

Nomde · « **Reply #96 on:** March 28, 2006, 12:01:52 AM »

bureaucratic nightmares[/i]

A very insightful intellectual once stated "Democracy is destine to fail, when the people learn that they can vote themselves the contents of the treasury." or something to that effect. I remember reading this a long time ago and it has always stuck with me. Does anyone here remember exactly who this quote came from?

The very nature of our "democratic republic" is the bureaucracy. Why? due to the nature of trying to get a majority of our political sweethunks to agree on anything, without adding a clause of thier own agenda. The influx of mexicans into the southwest states have been going on for so long, there's now mexican-americans in high levels of politics, education, business and lawyers in particular. They are going to push thier agendas which are meaningful to them. Just as we do across the entire nation, push our own agendas which are meaningful to us. Right now the issue is immigration.

Want my opinion? Hey pedro... i'm havin a BBQ in my backyard, can ya stop by 7-11 and grab a bag a chips from Ali Abba Kariem el Kabaya. Let em know to bring beer and stop by at 7 with Bubba Joe. We'll watch the pretty light and blast wave as the brother of Ali ignites the thermo nuk he stored down at the docks. We'll get drunk, wave our donuts in the air, and roast some wiener's while our wives moan about the heat.

Tarmac · « **Reply #97 on:** March 28, 2006, 12:27:20 AM »

Ya got my curiosity fired Nomde, and I found out:

Alexander Tyler!
Alexander Tytler, Tyler, Lord Woodhouslee
and finally...nobody!

In conclusion, nobody said it.

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #98 on:** March 28, 2006, 12:47:22 AM »

Rofl Nomde ....

For me, the idea would be to make it possible to become legal, like before Sept11. Hire more INS buraucrats so it does not take 2 years to even touch a file, or a deportation case.

Faster case treatment. Then, crack down hard on illegal immigration, because the illegal had an true opportunity to "pay his taxes".

In L.A., I met some of those criminals described by Marine. I also met the stereotype of the Mexican familly, fat slobes piled up in a busted minivan.

But I mostly met Illegals that worked underpaid jobs, making a living despite the anchors throw at their feet by the Gvt. In the roofing company I was working for, 90% were illegal. They work 12h days roofing, their wife work in sweatshops/cleaning, even the kids help at times. Those don't have an education, and would never qualify for a Visa, but they are contributing to the economy of this country.

Hey Akak, I left L.A. in August and moved to Houston. The company in Houston just went under thank to a FAA FSDO war, so I'm back CA to live with my GF/daughter in Riverside. I'm looking for work, god knows which state I'll end up in. I might have to give up aviation so I can stabilize with my chick. 6 month here, 1 year there contracts start to wear down on me.

FuBaR · « **Reply #99 on:** March 28, 2006, 01:01:30 AM »

I think they forgot whos country this is.

Overpopulation anyone?

pasta · « **Reply #100 on:** March 28, 2006, 01:32:35 AM »

guess please

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I used to live in the East Bay, and one day a guy at work was complaining about all the mexicans moving in.

I told him that he lives across the bay from San Francisco, California... Just east of us is Vallejo, Vacaville, and Sacramento. Just to the south of us is Santa Cruz, San Jose, Alameda, ......

Nomde · « **Reply #101 on:** March 28, 2006, 01:43:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FuBaR
I think they forgot whos country this is.

Pequot
Paugussett
Shawnee
Chippewa
Seneca
Oneida
Mohawk
Cherokee
Seminole
Apache
Ottawa
Comanche
Sioux
Crow
Blackfeet
Cheyenne

Just to name a few.....
Now who forgot?

Rolex · « **Reply #102 on:** March 28, 2006, 04:06:26 AM »

woah...

Here's some financial food for thought to consider in the costs of illegal immigration:

Most illegal immigrants are paying taxes and Social Security with the Medicare component because they use false Social Security Account Numbers and employers withold it. There will always be businesses trying to pay under the table, but there aren't that many businesses paying illegal immigrants their wages under the table anymore since the penalties are double the 'standard' under-the-table wage penalties from the IRS.

The employer simply asks for the required documentation (determining if it real or fake is not their job) and shifts the burden to the worker.

Half of all illegal immigrants would have no tax liability due to their wage level - legal or illegal - and all of their tax component would be refunded if they filed a return, but they do not file tax returns.

The IRS income tax component withheld by employers of all illegals just goes into the huge pile of money.

The Social Security component goes into another pile of money labeled "These SSANs don't match, but we'll use the money anyways."

The Social Security Adminstration will send out letters to employers with large numbers of non-matching SSANs after a year or so of collecting the money, and the workers usually just quit when asked for further documentation by the employer. They just find another job earning low wages and continue paying taxes using the same (or even a new) SSAN.

It seems California, Texas and Illinois are the top 3 states contributing to this pile of free money and the top three businesses were restaurants, construction and farms.

I say free, because illegal immigrants never collect any benefits and are subsidizing Social Security. In the past 5 years, over $1/4 trillion of wages contributed taxes and Social Security.

All illegals are spending the money they make in the economy buying and consuming.

If all of the illegals came here legally, they would probably still hold the same general class of jobs. It wouldn't make much difference. The problem with states claiming shortfalls from illegal immigration is that the system itself is overextended or poorly conceived. Poor people will always cost more in social benefits than they contribute in taxes - legal or illegal, since both are paying taxes.

--------

So, the real question is, are you really against all immigration or do you just want the paperwork filled out right? If every illegal were deported and replaced with a legal immigrant, they would be asking for their tax refunds and Social Security...

You have to be careful of your answer, because the current state of the economy requires continuous influx of people buying stuff, legal, illegal, from Mars, it doesn't matter. Illegal immigration might be a better deal than legal immigration.

Anyway, some more fuel for the fire of your 'discussion.'

Ghosth · « **Reply #103 on:** March 28, 2006, 08:16:33 AM »

Let me reverse this, look at it from the other side.

If I want to immigrate to Australlia, I have to have proof of a job.
Not just any job, a decent year round steady employment.
If I lose that job, I can lose my visa for AU, and be kicked back out.

WHY?

Because no country can afford an endless flood of people, especially poor people. They overrun the system, bog it down, clog it up, and generally screw up your island paradise.

We in the US are looking at having at least 1/4th of the country having a predominantly spanish speaking population in the next 20 years.

You REALLY think we can allow this illeagle immigration to continue unchecked. Every year that we do so we shift the population. We increase the # of spanish speaking people and decrease the english speaking people.
Doesn't take a crystal ball to see that at some point the spanish speaking people are going to say, ENOUGH, we want our own goverment. And they will get it, at which point they'll either kick us out, or turn us into second class citizens.

Wake up people, this is the United States of America we are talking about.

We have the tools, we have the abilty to lock down both borders.
Seal them down rock solid tight. Revamp the proccess to get a visa.
Stop the wetbacks, make it easier to be a legal immigrant.
At this point all we do is just kick them back over the border when we do catch them.

WRONG ANSWER

As to the whole "they do jobs no one else wants" arguement.
That only carry's so far. If they were not so cheap, and so available, they'd find other ways.

Here in North Dakota we used to see hordes of migrants every summer.
Come north to hoe in the sugar beet fields. These were NOT the illeagles, not the bums, and druggies on welfare.

These were solid familys who brought the whole family, everyone worked.
And yes as teenagers we worked right beside them.

You no longer see the migrants up here. A few here & there perhaps.
The farmers have found a better way, more chemicals, more techknowlegy, fewer problems.

Same holds true for "most" of those so called "jobs" that no one wants.

Shut down the flow of cheap labor and they'd find other, better ways.

Pull our troops back home, ALL of them.

Put them on the borders, seal them down tight. Then put the National Guard to work buidling a wall. You'd not only help the immigrant problem, you'd help win the war on drugs as well.

Once the borders are sealed, then its crack down on the ports.

Ohh and BTW some of us have ancesters who Were BORN in this country.
Who have been here for century's if not 1000's of years.

I

pasta · « **Reply #104 on:** March 28, 2006, 12:11:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ghosth
Let me reverse this, look at it from the other side.

If I want to immigrate to Australlia, I have to have proof of a job.
Not just any job, a decent year round steady employment.
If I lose that job, I can lose my visa for AU, and be kicked back out.

WHY?

Because no country can afford an endless flood of people, especially poor people. They overrun the system, bog it down, clog it up, and generally screw up your island paradise.

We in the US are looking at having at least 1/4th of the country having a predominantly spanish speaking population in the next 20 years.

You REALLY think we can allow this illeagle immigration to continue unchecked. Every year that we do so we shift the population. We increase the # of spanish speaking people and decrease the english speaking people.
Doesn't take a crystal ball to see that at some point the spanish speaking people are going to say, ENOUGH, we want our own goverment. And they will get it, at which point they'll either kick us out, or turn us into second class citizens.

Wake up people, this is the United States of America we are talking about.

We have the tools, we have the abilty to lock down both borders.
Seal them down rock solid tight. Revamp the proccess to get a visa.
Stop the wetbacks, make it easier to be a legal immigrant.
At this point all we do is just kick them back over the border when we do catch them.

WRONG ANSWER

As to the whole "they do jobs no one else wants" arguement.
That only carry's so far. If they were not so cheap, and so available, they'd find other ways.

Here in North Dakota we used to see hordes of migrants every summer.
Come north to hoe in the sugar beet fields. These were NOT the illeagles, not the bums, and druggies on welfare.

These were solid familys who brought the whole family, everyone worked.
And yes as teenagers we worked right beside them.

You no longer see the migrants up here. A few here & there perhaps.
The farmers have found a better way, more chemicals, more techknowlegy, fewer problems.

Same holds true for "most" of those so called "jobs" that no one wants.

Shut down the flow of cheap labor and they'd find other, better ways.

Pull our troops back home, ALL of them.

Put them on the borders, seal them down tight. Then put the National Guard to work buidling a wall. You'd not only help the immigrant problem, you'd help win the war on drugs as well.

Once the borders are sealed, then its crack down on the ports.

Ohh and BTW some of us have ancesters who Were BORN in this country.
Who have been here for century's if not 1000's of years.

I

Brother you are going to miss next meeting, have you sign up for thist month cross burning?