Author Topic: A Few Observations... (Read 2626 times)

nirvana · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2006, 12:12:01 PM »

I don't even notice the stall buffet, probably because i'm not good enough to even start turning before I get shot down. Seriously though, turn off the machine gun stall buffer sound and you don't even know it's there!

Kurt · « **Reply #16 on:** March 26, 2006, 01:12:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooface
i still think the effect should 'ease' in. as it is now, suddenly the aircraft starts to vibrate, it shouldnt really be instant like that.

In real life, some aircraft do get into stall quite suddenly and with little warning... High Performance fighters are especially prone to this... You can't have it both ways... If you want outstanding manuverability then you degrade stability by necessity... Just the way it goes in pre-fly-by-wire aircraft...

Lazerr · « **Reply #17 on:** March 26, 2006, 01:14:55 PM »

I knew YOU would understand Morph...

Now lets go on STRIKE!:eek:

Kurt · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2006, 01:15:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooface
with ya there eilif.

but, in real life, the buffet doesnt just appear to go from 0 to full intensity with a few degrees

Actually yes, it does...

The difference is that in real life you're fighting with the full forces of the stick, in AH you don't have all of that tactile feedback (I don't care what stick you have...)

a few degrees of AOA is more than the amount of warning you get even in a nice stable Cessna.

Pooface · « **Reply #19 on:** March 26, 2006, 01:21:17 PM »

but kurt, it isnt instant off/on is it?? there is a very small amount of fade in. it's the on/off effect i hate. i love the stall buffet, think it's great, but it needs to increase from 0 to 1, not 0 to 1 instantly, if you understand what i mean

Kurt · « **Reply #20 on:** March 26, 2006, 01:28:33 PM »

I do understand what you mean, but what I'm saying is that in the real plane you would feel the controls going weird on you.. There is no way to simulate that...

In reality, a relatively unstable fighter is going to go through that boundry so fast that if you can't actually feel the stick (as in AH) you're not going to get any warning... And if they gave you the additional time to warn you the performance would necessarily become unrealistic.

You just need to be more sensitive to the control feel as you approach these high AOA stall conditions... AH does drop some hints, and if you fly with an awareness of them you shouldn't have much problem..

Control lack of response and so on are warnings that you are right at the edge.

Spits were never intended to fight with flaps deployed, Mustangs and such were designed to carry a notch of flaps when needed.... So if thats what you're doing (in a spit or other airplane not designed for it) then you are already beyond the normal envelope, and should relearn what you're doing.

The rule of thumb I use is that if the stall horn is on at all then I need to rethink the manuver... 2000hp planes (NONE OF THEM) are designed to be intentionally stalled. If you're stalling it, you're working too hard.

Even planes that fly comfortably pretty far into the stall horn will bleed so much energy in that condition that its unlikely to pay off in the long run (read that as - you may get this kill, but you're going to have a lot of work ahead of you to get your speed back and you'll be vulnerable during that time).

DadRabit · « **Reply #21 on:** March 26, 2006, 01:31:56 PM »

S!

can i still aim the pointy end down the runway and fly?

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #22 on:** March 26, 2006, 02:59:27 PM »

so, sitting here reading this, I am wondering!

does the new changes affect those that used "combat trim" more so than those that used a manual trim for the most part?

I am thinking this is probably something that will make AH better, but might increase the learning cruve/er I mean add to it for those that have not flown AH for /thru it's entirety.......

hope to get a chance to get online tonight and try out the new patch for me ownself.....

eilif · « **Reply #23 on:** March 26, 2006, 03:30:45 PM »

Increasing the learning curve is a good thing! there is always the stall limeter and combat trim for the new players. The learning curve is why i do flight sims, mastering the plane is the most gratifying game play element. If you decrease the learning curve you decrease the amount of variables to keep people occupied with learning thier plane so that they can look forward to being better there by getting more satisfaction out of victory. This is the key element that makes games like crimson skies from doing very well for the long term. People hop on because its very accesable and everyone and their grandma could fly it. But like mario it comes and goes till another incarnation. Mogs must develop and have something that keeps people coming back for more, thats the learning curve!

Kurt · « **Reply #24 on:** March 26, 2006, 03:37:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by eilif
Increasing the learning curve is a good thing! there is always the stall limeter and combat trim for the new players. The learning curve is why i do flight sims, mastering the plane is the most gratifying game play element. If you decrease the learning curve you decrease the amount of variables to keep people occupied with learning thier plane so that they can look forward to being better there by getting more satisfaction out of victory.

Totally agree... And frankly, while I know this is a game and not a pure 'simulation' anything that puts a stop to unrealistic play styles (such as spitfire stall fighting) is a good thing.

Nobody in the war WANTED to be slow and low. It happened, and some planes did well (hurricane) in that environment... But no pilot (not even in a hurricane) deliberately placed himself in that situation.

And now the stall fighters of AH are learning why.

I like it.

Don't get me wrong, I fly pretty manuverable planes (spit9 mostly)... But I'll take speed and good tactics before small turning radius any day.

MOIL · « **Reply #25 on:** March 26, 2006, 04:47:06 PM »

Pooface:
"but, i was just wondering, if the effect could be dampened a little, and 'ease' in, instead of just suddenly being there".

Why is it you can request something be adjusted with a PLANE but us GV guys should just take what we get and (as you stated) quit whinning:huh

Go figure

Pooface · « **Reply #26 on:** March 26, 2006, 05:30:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MOIL
Pooface:
"but, i was just wondering, if the effect could be dampened a little, and 'ease' in, instead of just suddenly being there".

Why is it you can request something be adjusted with a PLANE but us GV guys should just take what we get and (as you stated) quit whinning:huh

Go figure

because in real life it isnt either on or off, it does vary/fade in, even though it may fade in very quickly

the GV situation has now been modelled more realistically, and the GV's now experience what the fighters always have, yet the GV guys complain that they are being hard done by. fact is that until now you've had it easy.

E25280 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2006, 06:33:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooface
because in real life it isnt either on or off, it does vary/fade in, even though it may fade in very quickly

I thought this was answered. It does "fade" in already. It is what the stall horn does. Ignore the horn, you "ease" into the buffet as it gets louder. So don't ignore it.

MOIL · « **Reply #28 on:** March 27, 2006, 12:12:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooface
because in real life it isnt either on or off, it does vary/fade in, even though it may fade in very quickly

the GV situation has now been modelled more realistically, and the GV's now experience what the fighters always have, yet the GV guys complain that they are being hard done by. fact is that until now you've had it easy.

That's a good one, I didn't know you recently OR in your lifetime fired the gun in the Ostwind in RL?

Same could be said for every single A/C in the game. I have talked to several individuals that have flown WWII A/C and have fired AA guns of this calibre. The guns do not make the rest of the world "blurry" unless you rest your head against the guns.

When a 37mm Flak gun is mounted to a 40 ton tank it doesn't shake the enviroment around you.

If we are going to start modeling all the things that are more "realistic" as you put it, then planes should break down, spout leaks (not just from bullets, mech failures of all kinds, guns that jammed and on & on..............

Yet the bombers can still drop a full payload of ord at 100' off the deck...................

Yeah lets start talkin' "realism shall we!

mars01 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 27, 2006, 10:59:16 AM »

Quote

anything that puts a stop to unrealistic play styles (such as spitfire stall fighting) is a good thing.

This is just a stoopid comment.

Quote

And now the stall fighters of AH are learning why.

You are totally wrong. Stall fighting has become even better now that there is more feedback as to how deep you are getting into the approaching stall. Before the buffet you could unknowingly go too far into the stall and snap into the ground. Now it is easier because further real life like feedback is available.

HTC did a nice job with the buffet. I get the same feeling in AH as I do in the Pitts or 152 when I am maneuvering close to the stall.(noticed I said feeling) IRL you have the Stall horn (in most planes), the stick, then the buffet to tell you different things about the possibly impending stall. The stick and the buffet tell you how deep you are getting into the stall. Since HTC can't do anything about the stick all that is left is the buffet to play with.