A Few Observations...

[Morpheus]

pffft, mars what do you know. you think you are a flyer guy in real life too!?!:noid

[Dead Man Flying]

The buffet hurts stallfighters?  LOL What are you people smoking?

-- Todd/Leviathn

[mars01]

LOL Morph she's all over the floor right now( doing annual inspection), I'll be calling you to come turn some screws next week!

[Morpheus]

NOICE.

[hitech]

Thanks mars01: The sound and shake remide me of the of the accelerated stall when pulling to hard on the down side of a loop in my RV. Always scares the crap out of a lot of pilots who have never done much acro when I bump the edge and the elephants start jumping on the wings

The next thing you hear from them with concern in ther voice. WHAT WAS THAT!

Pooface. How it works is exactly as BadBoy describes. I will not ramp the buffet because it's purpose is to let you know when you went to far. If you buffet you need to let off the stick to maintain best turn performance. The stall horn has always been there to provide what you ask for. Knowing when you are aproching the edge. The buffet just lets you know you went to far.

Having done accelerted stalls in P51's I can asure you in that plane there was absolutly 0 feed back that I could detect before departing. Other planes I have flown give you a slight buzz in the stick before buffet onset.

HiTech

[Alky]

Originally posted by Pooface:

Why is it you can request something be adjusted with a PLANE but us GV guys should just take what we get and (as you stated) quit whinning:huh

Go figure

Cuz it's called "Aces High!" lmao  

[MOIL]

Originally posted by Alky
Cuz it's called "Aces High!" lmao  

Which is a name NOT a discription.

Have you ever played IL2 Sturmovik?  I have, and there's more than just IL2's in the game:rolleyes:

[Schutt]

Originally posted by hitech
Thanks mars01: The sound and shake remide me of the of the accelerated stall when pulling to hard on the down side of a loop in my RV. Always scares the crap out of a lot of pilots who have never done much acro when I bump the edge and the elephants start jumping on the wings

The next thing you hear from them with concern in ther voice. WHAT WAS THAT!

Pooface. How it works is exactly as BadBoy describes. I will not ramp the buffet because it's purpose is to let you know when you went to far. If you buffet you need to let off the stick to maintain best turn performance. The stall horn has always been there to provide what you ask for. Knowing when you are aproching the edge. The buffet just lets you know you went to far.

Having done accelerted stalls in P51's I can asure you in that plane there was absolutly 0 feed back that I could detect before departing. Other planes I have flown give you a slight buzz in the stick before buffet onset.

HiTech

That means p51 in ah2 should have no stall buzzer and no noticeable approach before departure, which would make flying it to the edge much harder than it is?

[AKDogg]

1 thing I have noticed since this patch is it promotes more hoing and running.  Everyplane I encounter now goes straight for the ho and then runs away regardless of what type a plane.  75% of the pilots in the game don't know how to manev to get on someones 6 they they go striaght for the ho.  Now I have learned how to avoid most of the ho's but its getting very boring.

Now I like this patch for more realism its just the downside of it brings it right back down,lol.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by mars01
This is just a stoopid comment.

Explain why it is stupid...  Spit 'stall fighting' is unrealistic... I've never seen any documentation that a pilot in a genuine spitfire in the real world used this as the prefered method of fighting.. Speed is life is the battle cry.. I've never heard 'Low and slow is life'.  If you have something, please direct me to it as I would prefer to be educated, not ridiculed.

I appreciate your Pitts experience definitely means you're more advanced in aerobatics than I am... But it doesn't add up to flying a spitfire either... The pitts can do lots of things a spitfire can not do.
 

You are totally wrong.  Stall fighting has become even better now that there is more feedback as to how deep you are getting into the approaching stall.

Well, there may be a few like yourself who understand the dynamics of how to ride a stall just right...  That remark of mine about more people falling out of the sky in the last week since the patch is based purely on what I'm seeing looking out the window... I'm seeing MORE people over develop the stall and subsequently get into a ferocious spin...  I don't have the numbers to back it up... But thats what I am seeing.

[hubsonfire]

It's impossible to say whether or not they're related, but I've noticed a helluva lot of new players over the last few weeks, and I was seeing a lot more HOing and a lot more departures from controlled flight over the last few weeks. Both situations you've described could be attributable to their inexperience, and not necessarily the changes in the FM. While I agree there are plenty of people augering and HOing, it's hard to pin the blame on a single factor.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Kurt
Explain why it is stupid...  Spit 'stall fighting' is unrealistic... I've never seen any documentation that a pilot in a genuine spitfire in the real world used this as the prefered method of fighting.. Speed is life is the battle cry.. I've never heard 'Low and slow is life'.  If you have something, please direct me to it as I would prefer to be educated, not ridiculed.

[/b]

Are you saying that a Spitfire cannot stallfight?  Because that's quite a bit different than what you appear to be saying, which is that Spitfires did not historically dogfight because tactics favored speed over stallfighting.  If the plane can stallfight, then it should be able to stallfight whether it traditionally did that or not tactically.

I appreciate your Pitts experience definitely means you're more advanced in aerobatics than I am... But it doesn't add up to flying a spitfire either... The pitts can do lots of things a spitfire can not do.

[/b]

A Pitts can also do a lot of things that a Sptifire could do too... like fly at as high a speed as it possible can and rarely, if ever, approach stall speed in turns.  Does this mean that the Pitts cannot fly slowly or at stall speed?
 
-- Todd/Leviathn

[Kurt]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


Are you saying that a Spitfire cannot stallfight? [/b]

Jeebs, I'm not picking a fight guys...

I never said it COULD NOT... I said that it was NEVER DONE DELIBERATELY... You could have read my earlier post to get that piece of information.  Nobody deliberately set up a low slow condition to win a fight because while it WAS possible, it didn't work (largely because fights are almost never 1v1).  So even if you tangle one guy down to the edge of stall, the other guy is going to get you.

A Pitts can also do a lot of things that a Sptifire could do too...

Yes, such as fly, taxi, burn gas... Thats a history lesson I don't really need.  The point is there is a vast difference in horsepower, wing loading, speed.  An aerobatic plane has a role, to fly right at the edge of flight (and beyond).  Fighters are not designed to do that, so once you move beyond the basic aerodynamic discussion and you start look at these two flying machines as what they are, all the other comparisons break down.

If you tell a spit pilot that you know how a spitfire behaves because you flew (or own) a pitts special he's going to laugh you straight out of the crack house...

I'd wager it would be MUCH easier for a spit pilot to get a feel for the pitts than for the pitts pilot to get a handle on the Spit.  Why do I say that?  Well, can we start with the extra 1700hp and the MASSIVE torque that comes with it?  Really, the list is far too long to get into right here.  But suffice to say it is a lot like comparing a bottle rocket to a Saturn V.

SO the point is... I respect Mars' experience and defer the points where he is qualified to make a direct comparison... But beyond that, he has no experience that indicates any more direct knowledge of spitfire operations than I have.  And if he does have that experience I have asked him to share so that I can become enlightened instead of 'stooopid'.

[mars01]

OK Kurt - I'm not picking a fight either, but your comment is stoopid.

Why should anyone have to religate themselves to flying in this game as if their life depended on it, if they aren't bound by some need, like you, to fly these computer game airplanes as if they were in real peril.  That is fine for you, but to need to stop others that would rather fly the planes for their strengths and weeknesses is stoopid.

AS for the Pitts = Spitfire.  That comparison is even more devoid of thought.  When I said "notice I said feeling" I figured someone would jump to your inaccurate understanding of my post.

At no time did I compare the Pitts to a spitfire, what I did say was that I recognized the same feeling I get when I am in much of the same situation in the Pitts as in this game.  This feeling was not as accurately portrayed in the game befor the addtion of the buffet.  I may have never flown a spit, but I certainly know what a stall is and feels like and obviousely HT does to.

Of the three indicators a RL pilot uses to read the onset and depth of a stall, no matter what type of plane, HT was only able to provide us with the stall horn.  By adding the buffet he has added yet another level of reality.  And not a level of reality that will make it harder to fly and fight, but a level that will make it easier to fight.

As for your seeing more people crashing due to this change, I would wager that it is the first time these players are seeing another aspect of a stalled airfoil, so I would expect some to need to get used to it and understand it better.  For those that know the feeling, it is like recognizing an old friend that has been missing.

[hubsonfire]

Can I please have the real Mars back, and could we execute the imposter. TY.