New Gun Shake

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by E25280
a much larger recoil less often is probably worse for aim than a smaller, more constant shake.

I would disagree there, at least a larger recoil effect actually in time with the firing of the gun would not obscure and blur your view of the plane, your tracers and the sky in general. If there was a larger recoil effect they could remove the randomized shell trajectories as that was designed to 'simulate' the effect of recoil on aim. To have the random shell trajecory and recoil effect both influencing aim is a double-wammy on aiming and redundant...

No matter how you slice this the gun shake effect as it pertains to all ground vehicles is poorly done. It causes visual distortions that have nothing to do with reality and promote headaches and nausea. They are obvious cut n' paste jobs from the effect given to buff guns and really aren't applicable to 25 ton vehicles which are incredibly robust and stable gun platforms, especially for light cannon and MG firing.

Zazen

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Zazen13

No matter how you slice this the gun shake effect as it pertains to all ground vehicles is poorly done. It causes visual distortions that have nothing to do with reality and promote headaches and nausea. They are obvious cut n' paste jobs from the effect given to buff guns and really aren't applicable to 25 ton vehicles which are incredibly robust and stable gun platforms, especially for light cannon and MG firing.

Zazen

Haveta dissagree with ya there. Spent a good deal of time in Gvs tonight.
Still not an Osti though so I cant comment on that.

the Machine gun shake is a minor inconvienience at worst. didnt effect my aim or hitting anything with them at all.

and while Gvs may be stable platforms. it still has the ability to move from side to side up and down  the gun itself still shakes. Thus the operator would shake as well.
In order for there to be no shake the gun would have to be welded in a fixed position and unable to move in any direction whatsoever

and while I only took one up.
I noticed that in a tiger the pintle gun doesnt shake at all

[BBQ_Bob]

The gun shake in the Ostwind is for the birds.

[BlauK]

I have yet to see a mounted jackhammer. Surely anything you are holding in stiff hands or against your shoulder would shake your head.
However, the mounted gun can be held much smoother.. maybe the arms and hands would shake, but one's head would not shake around in same phase.

The bottom line is that if this kind of effect makes people nauseous, they simply quit playing with those rides! Is that the goal?

[Morpheus]

I have never flown in a P51 and let all 6x50s rip. I dont think anyone of you has either.

I have fired a full-auto 50 browning from a tri-pod at a MG shoot/show though a few years ago. The recoil wasnt nearly as bad as the earthquake like recoil in AH now. Its kinda funny, and I dont play much anymore, so I dont really care what its like to be honest. If it spun the plane around I might like it more.

I watched a few guys shoot a mini-gun at the same show. The RoF on that was much faster and the recoil was more constant than the browning so he was able to hold a point after he initially fired the gun and basicly just sprayed the hell out of an old car down range.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by BlauK

The bottom line is that if this kind of effect makes people nauseous, they simply quit playing with those rides! Is that the goal?

Exactly...

[DREDIOCK]

Took the Osti up tonight to see what all the hubub was about.

You girls gotta be kidding me.
It aint THAT bad even zooomed in

Nowheres near what people are trying to make of it. Least not sober
You folks make it sound like a 9.0 earthquake is going on when its barely a 1.2

Have you tried it sober?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by BlauK
I have yet to see a mounted jackhammer. Surely anything you are holding in stiff hands or against your shoulder would shake your head.
However, the mounted gun can be held much smoother.. maybe the arms and hands would shake, but one's head would not shake around in same phase.

The bottom line is that if this kind of effect makes people nauseous, they simply quit playing with those rides! Is that the goal?

A mounted gun still can freely traverse left and right and  up and down. it is in those directions that the vibrations would be transferred. Your holding it would also transfer those vibrations to your body.

I've now tried all the guns including the Osti but not yet the buff gunner positions.

So far from what I see the complaints of the severity of the vibrations are grossly overstated.
I get more vibration effect from my lawn mower

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Took the Osti up tonight to see what all the hubub was about.

You girls gotta be kidding me.
It aint THAT bad even zooomed in

Nowheres near what people are trying to make of it. Least not sober
You folks make it sound like a 9.0 earthquake is going on when its barely a 1.2

Have you tried it sober?

It's really bad at higher resolutions. I dummed my resolution down to 600X800 it wasn't as bad (although everything is blocky). At my usual 1600X1200 (512 textures) it's pretty horrible. What resolution did you try it in?

Zazen

[ChopSaw]

Fighter guns shake.  I guess they have for a long time, but you hardly notice it.  You can only really see it at high zoom.  Since fighters rarely shoot when zoomed like that, it makes little difference and it's seen as a nice visual effect.

Now the guns on buffs and gv's shake too.  HT has posted the change was made to correct a long overdue oversight and that it was included to increase immersion.  Further, it is the feeling of HTC that we'll become accustomed to the shaking in a few weeks and won't notice it.

Maybe we will become accustomed to the buff guns.  Right now my squad is reporting a 20 to 40% decrease in effectiveness.  Fighters we would have torn apart before are now coming in and killing our buffs.  No matter how newby their approach they now have a better than 50% chance of killing our birds even if they die in the process.  We're trying to become accustomed to the change, but so far it's not looking good.

The coaxial guns on tanks now shake.  On another thread a guy who has shot the coaxial gun of a Bradley reported he wouldn't have been able to tell the thing was firing if not for the sound.  It was that vibration free.  Makes sense.  It's coupled to the very large barrel of the main gun.  Nothing hand held about it.

Ostwinds now rattle and roll like nobodies business.  People who know the ride are reporting severe decreases in effectiveness.  Some who have used the Ostwind for years, now can't because the movement is so severe it's making them ill.

The shaking may have been added for its immersion enhancing effect, but it's had some adverse side effects as well.  This has not leveled the playing field or balanced the fight.  It's had the opposite effect.  The only people applauding the shaking are those that benefit directly from decreased efficacy in buff and gv guns.  It would be nice to see it changed back to non-shaking.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Zazen13
It's really bad at higher resolutions. I dummed my resolution down to 600X800 it wasn't as bad (although everything is blocky). At my usual 1600X1200 (512 textures) it's pretty horrible. What resolution did you try it in?

Zazen

Same thing I run everything in 1024 X 768

At that res the vibration to me seems to be about right. And the osti seems to vibrate a bit slower then the MGs. OR I should say more in time with the gun firing.

Yea there is vibration. but nowhere near as bad as its been described.

[Balsy]

Originally posted by ChopSaw
Fighter guns shake.  I guess they have for a long time, but you hardly notice it.  You can only really see it at high zoom.  Since fighters rarely shoot when zoomed like that, it makes little difference and it's seen as a nice visual effect.

Now the guns on buffs and gv's shake too.  HT has posted the change was made to correct a long overdue oversight and that it was included to increase immersion.  Further, it is the feeling of HTC that we'll become accustomed to the shaking in a few weeks and won't notice it.

Maybe we will become accustomed to the buff guns.  Right now my squad is reporting a 20 to 40% decrease in effectiveness.  Fighters we would have torn apart before are now coming in and killing our buffs.  No matter how newby their approach they now have a better than 50% chance of killing our birds even if they die in the process.  We're trying to become accustomed to the change, but so far it's not looking good.

The coaxial guns on tanks now shake.  On another thread a guy who has shot the coaxial gun of a Bradley reported he wouldn't have been able to tell the thing was firing if not for the sound.  It was that vibration free.  Makes sense.  It's coupled to the very large barrel of the main gun.  Nothing hand held about it.

Ostwinds now rattle and roll like nobodies business.  People who know the ride are reporting severe decreases in effectiveness.  Some who have used the Ostwind for years, now can't because the movement is so severe it's making them ill.

The shaking may have been added for its immersion enhancing effect, but it's had some adverse side effects as well.  This has not leveled the playing field or balanced the fight.  It's had the opposite effect.  The only people applauding the shaking are those that benefit directly from decreased efficacy in buff and gv guns.  It would be nice to see it changed back to non-shaking.

Yup the days of Barret 50 cal Sniper rifle accuracy for an "area weapon" are OVER!!!.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I tried osty first time after a few weeks, noticed the sight shaking a lot but it didn't hurt my accuracy one bit. I guess I'm already used from playing AAO w/ iron sights.

[hartz89]

I'm a quiet Bish that loves this game--I mostly GV but now and again do the Spit thing.  I have to weigh in on the issue of gun shake.

I personally have fired coax 7.62mm on a variety of armored vehicles, pintle-mounted .50s and 7.62s, and a 20mm gatling gun firing 3000 rounds per minute on a M113 chassis (Vulcan).

For the coax guns, there is no shake.  Zero, nada, none, not one iota. Ok, there was once but that was because the idiot loader didn't connect the front pin.   As the tank commander, you can't even hear the thing firing while wearing a CVC (helmet with earphones).  

For pintle-mounts, 7.62s rattle your teeth but don't shake off target or your view (unless the sound makes you blink and flinch) if you lean in to them.  A .50 on a pintle will dance a bit if you fire sustained bursts.

While I've never fired an Osti, the Gatling on the Vulcan, which is a hydraulic mount like the Osti, had zero shake when it fired.  No wandering sights, no vehicle shake.  That's logical when the cannon is hard-connected to the entire vehicle; the vehicle itself is a recoil damper.  I just don't see how it's possible that the small cannon on the Osti shakes the whole contraption like it was a ground mount poorly set.

Especially with the Osti, I have seen a marked effect on accuracy with the update.  I'm not talking about a 400 mph cross-shot on a vulching LA7, but rather a big as a billboard mosquito doing a straight strafing run into my gun.  With the update, in my view, the LA7 will live where before there was at least some chance I could tag it.  The mosquito driver now might live, where before there was no chance.  The head shake is more like a handicap.  Worse, it rewards poor flyers.    

I know there are a lot of views on the issue and AH.  Reality, gameplay, whatever.  In my view, AH is an admirable balance among all factors.  Particularly with the Osti, however, in my opinion that balance has been shifted away from both fun and realism with the gun shake update.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Same thing I run everything in 1024 X 768

At that res the vibration to me seems to be about right. And the osti seems to vibrate a bit slower then the MGs. OR I should say more in time with the gun firing.

Yea there is vibration. but nowhere near as bad as its been described.

Yea, you run very low resolution compared to most, it's not as nauseating at low resolution, try it at 128X1024 or 1600X1200, make sure to have a barf bucket beside your desk...