Question on Sherman with bullet holes

[hogenbor]

Hi all,

If you look at the pics you see that it has what looks to me like bullet holes in its side. They are about an inch deep and half an inch wide. I was wondering if anyone has a clue about what kind of weapon can cause this kind of damage to the side of a Sherman? Museum info only states it was knocked out by the Germans, nothing more





Some background:

Last weekend I visited the Dutch war and resistance museum in Overloon. To me it is a powerful reminder of the horrors of war and a quiet place to think about the things we do to each other. I'm glad I visited it as a 12 year old boy as part of our WWII history class.

On a lighter note:

They have opened a new hall, the Marshall museum. Loads and loads of military hardware, mostly ex US forces. I was frankly amazed, I haven't done any research on history and funding of this part of the museum, but they must have quadrupled their collection overnight. Go see it, it's really worth it. Well displayed, well lit, lots of info on everything and you can see verything up close if you want.

When I was there I bumped into a Sherman 'Crab'. It had been rusting outside for ages but was now placed inside and has been given a new paint job. It is one of the many items in the museum that has been used in the fighting between allied and axis forces in that part of my country. See question above.

[Fencer51]

If you look at the pics you see that it has what looks to me like bullet holes in its side. They are about an inch deep and half an inch wide. I was wondering if anyone has a clue about what kind of weapon can cause this kind of damage to the side of a Sherman?

A machinegun.

The area of the bullet holes is not part of the sherman but the arm of the flail.  It was not armored.

[SMIDSY]

my best guess would be some crazy german was still equipped with an anti tank rifle.

[Reschke]

That is not the arm of the flail but rather a metal skirt that appears to be running around the area just above the tracks. It could be machine gun bullet penetration but who knows.

[Treize69]

Sherman skirts were basically just sheet metal, not the same grade of steel as used in the body/turret armor.

A lucky hit could have still disabled the tracks though, just very unlikely.

[HoHun]

Hi Hogenbor,

>Last weekend I visited the Dutch war and resistance museum in Overloon. To me it is a powerful reminder of the horrors of war and a quiet place to think about the things we do to each other. I'm glad I visited it as a 12 year old boy as part of our WWII history class.

Do they still have the Mosquito there? I was there, too, when I was 12 years old (or may a bit younger), and I distinctly remember being very impressed by the size of the Mosquito, which was parked in the open in a circle of hedgerows with a walkway around it. Probably not the way you'd keep a wooden Mosquito today ...

Back then, it struck me as odd that so long after the war there were still broken tanks standing around. Somehow I must have got the idea they still stood where they broke down or were hit :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[frank3]

My guess would be a machine-gun too, there are too many bullets for a single-firing weapon (I mean, who'd shoot at a tank for over 10 times else?)

The thing I find strange is that there ARE holes, I'd think machine-gun bullets would simple richochet of the armour, instead of penetrating it.
Maybe they were AP rounds?

They may even be fired from an aircraft?

Was there any information about the location it's from?
I've heard 'Crabs' were used during the D-Day landings in Normandy, to clear mines

[BUG_EAF322]

lez google



antitank rifle 1944 german

[Debonair]

Could be sharpnel holes from something the crab turned up, but that seems like a strange place for them.

[Pei]

It could also be some kind of light flak pressed into service against ground targets, or the main armament of light armoured vehicle of some kind (spahwagen etc.).

[Pongo]

Both the cover on the drive of the flail (probably light metal) and the sponsoons above the right track(definalty armoured) where hit.
Looks like a machine gun to me.  Since they didnt have 50s I imagine it was a 7.92

[hogenbor]

Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Hogenbor,

Do they still have the Mosquito there? I was there, too, when I was 12 years old (or may a bit younger), and I distinctly remember being very impressed by the size of the Mosquito, which was parked in the open in a circle of hedgerows with a walkway around it. Probably not the way you'd keep a wooden Mosquito today ...

Back then, it struck me as odd that so long after the war there were still broken tanks standing around. Somehow I must have got the idea they still stood where they broke down or were hit :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Hi Hohun,

To the best of my knowledge they never had a Mosquito... but I could be wrong. I was 12 in 1983. The set-up you described was indeed there then, but it was not a Mosquito but a B-25 Mitchell.  I have pictures of it from 1983... somewhere buried in my mum's attic...

I remember that it was painted a completly inaccurate shade of green. Now it's inside the museum and looks a lot better. I have pics of it from last weekend, will post them tonight.

The older part of the collection does give the impression that they were left where they were hit don't they? But it's a bit hard to explain how a Russian JS2 ended up there What I never realised is that in most of the older vehicles there, people died when they were hit. A chilling thought.

Especially the tanks now inside, with their shiny new paint jobs don't give that impression. But you can look at the insides of most of them and see that they are just empty hulls with the bottom blown out and twisted metal inside.

[HoHun]

Hi Hogenbor,

>To the best of my knowledge they never had a Mosquito... but I could be wrong. I was 12 in 1983. The set-up you described was indeed there then, but it was not a Mosquito but a B-25 Mitchell.  

Hm, I guess I confused the types :-) Probably some Mosquito photograph from a book overwrote the B-25 in my mind!

> Now it's inside the museum and looks a lot better. I have pics of it from last weekend, will post them tonight.

Great, I'm looking forward to it! :-)

> What I never realised is that in most of the older vehicles there, people died when they were hit. A chilling thought.

Indeed! What I found totally incomprehensible as a kid was why they had fought a war at all.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[hogenbor]

Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
lez google



antitank rifle 1944 german

Thanks. Found plenty info on German anti-tank wepaons on that site. It appears to have been some sort of anti tank rifle. The rounds did not penetrate though, but made some nasty deep holes nonetheless.

Placed alongside the 'Crab' are a British Churchill with the bottom blown out by a mine and another Sherman with the turret blown clear of its mounting (it lies skewed on top of the hull now). Only the commander of the Churchill survived, minus his legs...

[hogenbor]

Hohun, here is your 'Mosquito'