Author Topic: Why unions still suck (Read 3398 times)

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #45 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:57:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Oh yeah, unions are a good thing,..sure. Tell my Father that after the unions burned his business to the ground after the reps were run out of the store by the employees.
Tell my Grandfather that after his home was burned down to the ground (lost my Grandma in that one) after unions reps were run out of his place of business by the employees.

Whenever I have any work done, which is coming out of my pocket, I ask if they are union and keep asking until I find someone who isn't. Unions can stuff it.

Now you know why I detest them. There is not a bloody thing anyone can say which will make unions appropriate from where I sit.

Wow, its a wonder anybody would allow themselves to be represented by these goons. Are you sure this wasnt organized crime?

Hangtime · « **Reply #46 on:** March 31, 2006, 11:59:16 AM »

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Originally posted by midnight Target
That really sucks.

I run the QA department where I work. One of the 1st things I tell my inspectors is that their job is to be a part of the solution, not just to find errors. If they go on a power trip it ruins the morale of the entire company. They also need to be diplomatic. Diplomacy is the art of telling someone his daughter is ugly without pissing him off.

Sounds like they need to suspend the process controll guy for designing a system that allows you to make an error. Then they can suspend the QC for not finding the root cause of the problem. Then they can suspend the President of the company for poor leadership....

you need a new job.

Midnight.. he's already been canned. In a country that ain't exactly booming with his kind of job skill requirements. Out on his ass, no recourse.

And that sucks.

Hope he makes it over here.. maybe he'll find a sponsor.

Choocha · « **Reply #47 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:03:02 PM »

Skuzzy,

Working for GM for 10 yrs makes me understand you're post very well. We were always threatned by them. We had our cars keyed and tires slashed frequently. My job often dealt with competative issues so we were often targets of thier thugery.

Unlike most saliered workers I wan't scared of them. If you key my car, I'm going to beat your ass. My friend was stabbed in the back with a screwdriver, and the UAW fought to have this guy return to work instead of going to jail. Guess what, after a year of thearpy, he returned to work and my friend had to face that humiliation. I would have taken care of it the old fasion way.

Henry Ford used to hire goones and club them if they got outa line. I can't say I blame him.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #48 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:03:13 PM »

Anyone that works deserves a *fair* wage. Now, define "fair".

I know people who are intelligent, but just flat lazy. They joined unions so they could get outrageous pay for minimal work. One of the guys makes more than I do, and he is a floor sweeper. His actual work time is 5 hours a day. The rest is breaks and lunch. 3 hours worth.

Sorry Hang, but all I see of unions are waste, arrogance, corruption, and greed.

Arlo · « **Reply #49 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:06:27 PM »

Hey, Skuz .... lemmee know if that floor sweeper job opens up. Things here are lookin' a bit shakey.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #50 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:06:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Wow, its a wonder anybody would allow themselves to be represented by these goons. Are you sure this wasnt organized crime?

Absolutely sure. The union rep won a city council chair a couple of years later.

That is how they got businesses to go union. They threatened the owners and employees. Everyone on the block of my Dad's business gave in out of fear. They burned my Dad's place down and let everyone else know if they ever thought about trying to get out of being union, the same would happen to them.

The police were useless. Corruption ran rampant in those days, and maybe still does.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #51 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:09:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
Hey, Skuz .... lemmee know if that floor sweeper job opens up. Things here are lookin' a bit shakey.

It will never open up. He is union, and cannot be fired as long as he shows up everyday.

He laughs all the way to the bank about it. Bastiage.

Choocha · « **Reply #52 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:10:15 PM »

skuzzy,

read my post four posts back..

Arlo · « **Reply #53 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:11:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
It will never open up. He is union, and cannot be fired as long as he shows up everyday.

He laughs all the way to the bank about it. Bastiage.

Well ... he's not immortal, right?

Hey, you guys taking interns? *nudge nudge*

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #54 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:12:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
I, for one, have never been out of work, have always had decent benefits and have been quite happy with my work over the last 35+ years. I see no benefit to unions whatsoever.
You are asking a loaded question. Loaded to presume all corporations are evil. Not all are. Just don't work for the ones that are. It has worked for me.

And you can thank the Unions for those decent benifits. Find one country that does not have or allow unions that provides its workers with benifits. Unions raise the living standards for everybody in this country. The only way to avoid organized labor is by gun. The slave. Your good jobs and decent benifits are a product of a society born out of a war on companies by the Unions. You dont really believe the companies wouldve cleaned up thier sweat shops if somebody dint make them do you? Bad mouth the unions all you want, just be aware that health insurance was unheard of until the unions fought and won this from the company. Now its standard for everybody. 8 hour work weeks? gimme a break. 12 hours 6 days a week until the the unions forced the companies fork out overtime pay. You and Your people at HTC take in a lot of money from union people thanks to decent wages. You dont have to like them, but just do some research so you can see just what a difficult battle it was and still is for unions to continue the fight for their members, as well as everybody elses standards of living.

Urchin · « **Reply #55 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:18:48 PM »

Skuzzy.. are you supposed to be an impartial mod or not?

If so, you aren't doing a very good job of acting like it. If not then I guess I misunderstood your role.

I can honestly appreciate you having an opinion on issues. I can even understand you censoring people who have different opinions if they don't toe the line when they post. What I can't appreciate is you NOT censoring people who share your opinion when they violate the "rules" you "punished" (censored) people with differing opinions for violating.

It kind of smacks of favoritism. If that was the intention all along, I apologize for being dense.

Sandman · « **Reply #56 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:22:49 PM »

On the ranges we have two types of employees, government and contracted. The contractors are typically electronics technicians, eletrical engineers, etc.

Things are a bit different today, but in the past this is how the system worked.

The government would allow companies to bid for the employee contract. This happened every three to five years (or so). The government gives preferential treatment to small businesses that are minority owned. Typically, at the end of a contract period, the company was no longer eligible to bid for the next contract because they became to profitable. Keep in mind... the employees never changed. They stayed on from employer to employer, but did the same work. The only thing that really changed was the administration.

So... the companies have a competitive bidding process. Wages were not allowed to decrease from one contract to the next, but benefits were being cut every time there was a new contract. Wages were seldom increased.

I was a contracted employee and we had a big push to go union. In addition to the wage issues, we had a program manager (lead contractor) that was a horrible totalitarian type. He wasn't particularly qualified to be in his position, but had managed to land the position simply by being in the right place at the right time.

I was on the union board and negotiated the collective bargaining agreement with the company. During our negotiations, a couple of things happened. The PM got fired and the IBEW provided us with current county wage determination guidelines. Many of the employees enjoyed 15-20% wage increases.

Everyone looked up and thought... we don't need the union.

They overlooked one small detail. If there was a CBA between the company and the employees any new company that came in would have to honor it. The employees would in effect have a voice in the government/contractor bidding process.

Anyway... there are still good reasons to have unions. Sometimes, unions are abusive. Same can be said for corporations.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #57 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:31:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Skuzzy.. are you supposed to be an impartial mod or not?

If so, you aren't doing a very good job of acting like it. If not then I guess I misunderstood your role.

I can honestly appreciate you having an opinion on issues. I can even understand you censoring people who have different opinions if they don't toe the line when they post. What I can't appreciate is you NOT censoring people who share your opinion when they violate the "rules" you "punished" (censored) people with differing opinions for violating.

It kind of smacks of favoritism. If that was the intention all along, I apologize for being dense.

Your post was edited due to it being disrespectful to another member of the board. I could care less what opinion you have about anything. But I will intervene when you start calling others names. And I am pretty damn consistent about it. If I see it, then it will get censored.

EDIT: By the way, this is the second time you have accused me of this. Do not do it again. I have little to no patience for this useless tripe. You have an issue with me, then take to email.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #58 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:33:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
And you can thank the Unions for those decent benifits. Find one country that does not have or allow unions that provides its workers with benifits. Unions raise the living standards for everybody in this country. The only way to avoid organized labor is by gun. The slave. Your good jobs and decent benifits are a product of a society born out of a war on companies by the Unions. You dont really believe the companies wouldve cleaned up thier sweat shops if somebody dint make them do you? Bad mouth the unions all you want, just be aware that health insurance was unheard of until the unions fought and won this from the company. Now its standard for everybody. 8 hour work weeks? gimme a break. 12 hours 6 days a week until the the unions forced the companies fork out overtime pay. You and Your people at HTC take in a lot of money from union people thanks to decent wages. You dont have to like them, but just do some research so you can see just what a difficult battle it was and still is for unions to continue the fight for their members, as well as everybody elses standards of living.

That was then and this is now. They (the unions) are now a cancer, as far as I am concerned, and have been one for quite some time. Not meant to be a personal reflection on any individual.

Urchin · « **Reply #59 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:46:15 PM »

So... unions, fighting for improved benefits for workers won concessions from corporations that led to improved conditions for everyone.

Even you, who hate unions with a passion, will admit this, correct?

And you expect that those corporations, who were forced to make concessions, will VOLUNTARILY keep any of those concessions in place were they not forced to?

Why would you believe this?