Author Topic: FILM: 109vs spitfire=prop wash? (Read 888 times)

Creton · « **on:** March 31, 2006, 01:17:45 PM »

I was surfing the net and found this movie.I thought some would like to see it.
One point of interest to me is when they are fighting,the commentator makes a comment regarding "prop wash".While prop wash is essential for rudder to performe correctly during maneuvers,is it possible that prop wash from the lead plane would cause buffeting and loss of lift/rudder deflection,or other problems associated with following to close on the boggies 6? I imagine it would be similar to following a semi down the hiway and trying to "draft" him,just as you're nearing the "bubble" of the vacum behind the trailer,there's an area and space where the buffeting is really bad and noticable in the vehicle.While I understand there's no vacum behind the aircraft,so drafting isnt really possible,to the extent that it is in vehicles, but I would think that some drafting would be possible.

Since HTC modeled the new "stall buffet" in ,is it possible to model "prop wash" into the game as well?This would create even more realism and add yet another varible into the game.

Enjoy the film

http://media.putfile.com/spitfire-vs-Me-109-dogfight

P.S. The wingman needs to be shot.

96Delta · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2006, 01:39:25 PM »

Oh my gosh!

That is an awesome computer simulation video!
I hope I'm alive when technology evolves to the
point that we can experience those kinds of graphics
in an online combat simulator!

Amazing!

Pooface · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2006, 01:44:22 PM »

creton, they put prop wash in when they added the stall buffet. im not sure how much of an effect it has though. read the release notes for 2.07

Pooface · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2006, 01:48:35 PM »

that film was awesome!

dedalos · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2006, 01:49:52 PM »

I CALL BS.

First, All the spit had to was reverse and kill both 109s with a few rounds.
Second, why didn't the 109 get cut in half or blow up after taking more than 2 Hispano hits?

Urchin · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2006, 02:54:29 PM »

Didn't the 109E have a braced tailplane? Didn't look like the lead had one.

Pooface · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2006, 02:55:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
I CALL BS.

First, All the spit had to was reverse and kill both 109s with a few rounds.
Second, why didn't the 109 get cut in half or blow up after taking more than 2 Hispano hits?

303 rounds. this is battle of britain era, where the 09s were also excellent turners

dedalos · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2006, 03:30:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooface
303 rounds. this is battle of britain era, where the 09s were also excellent turners

K, you missed the sarcasm.

However, it looks kind of fake to me. 2 low 109s meet 2 low spits, over the English coast. The 2 109s ignore 1 of the spits while the other just waits to get shot. Then, a spit drops right infront of the guns of a 109 that does not fire at it. All that while the 2 109s are acting as if there was no second plane there.

SirLoin · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2006, 03:40:49 PM »

Wingtip votices...now that would be interestin if that was modeled.

Krusty · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2006, 03:49:57 PM »

There are several problems with the modeling, if this is 3D. First, the 109s were Fs. Battle of Britain was well over by the time Fs entered service. Spit1s gave way to SpitIIs, and then SpitVs before 109Fs showed up (I think).

Second, they don't show the 109 nose, but you can clearly see it has high exhaust stacks, and a bumpy hood, almost like a late model Spitty has. 109s had inverted V engines, the exhaust stacks were low, and the hood was round and smooth on top.

Third, the spitfires had 2 radiators, indicating later models (Spit9, I think, had those first?). They are, however, painted as BOB era spit1s, and the gunfire sounds like light MGs and the damage seems to support this fact. EDIT: There was also no evidence of cannon barrels on the wing leading edges.

I don't think it was very realistic either. Most fights weren't at sea level, and the events in the film are not realistic in my humble opinion. However I'll limit myself to the modeling errors.

TracerX · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2006, 03:53:32 PM »

I saw this clip on the History Channel, or Discovery, I can't remember which. It is a well done computer simulation that depicts what a dogfight might have been like durring the BOB period. The video is trying to point out the difference between the experience of the Lufftwaffe and the newer recruits of the RAF, along with the capabilities of each plane. The conclusion was that considering all factors, the conflict was basicly a draw. Speed and maneouverability going to the Spitfire, experience, and firepower going to the Luftwaffe.

zorstorer · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2006, 04:04:15 PM »

The base video was a live shot with the 109 and spits superimposed over it.

At least that was my take on it

.303's pwn!!!

Pooface · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2006, 04:19:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
K, you missed the sarcasm.

However, it looks kind of fake to me. 2 low 109s meet 2 low spits, over the English coast. The 2 109s ignore 1 of the spits while the other just waits to get shot. Then, a spit drops right infront of the guns of a 109 that does not fire at it. All that while the 2 109s are acting as if there was no second plane there.

ah right. lol

secondly, planes didnt act in RL like they do in AH, but i would agree with you that their SA wasnt too great lol

Lye-El · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2006, 04:39:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
I CALL BS.

First, All the spit had to was reverse and kill both 109s with a few rounds.
Second, why didn't the 109 get cut in half or blow up after taking more than 2 Hispano hits?

Mark I maybe?

Shifty · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2006, 05:35:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
There are several problems with the modeling, if this is 3D. First, the 109s were Fs. Battle of Britain was well over by the time Fs entered service. Spit1s gave way to SpitIIs, and then SpitVs before 109Fs showed up (I think).

Second, they don't show the 109 nose, but you can clearly see it has high exhaust stacks, and a bumpy hood, almost like a late model Spitty has. 109s had inverted V engines, the exhaust stacks were low, and the hood was round and smooth on top.

Third, the spitfires had 2 radiators, indicating later models (Spit9, I think, had those first?). They are, however, painted as BOB era spit1s, and the gunfire sounds like light MGs and the damage seems to support this fact. EDIT: There was also no evidence of cannon barrels on the wing leading edges.

I don't think it was very realistic either. Most fights weren't at sea level, and the events in the film are not realistic in my humble opinion. However I'll limit myself to the modeling errors.

I think your right Krusy. They are too high up for any of the BMW powered Luftwaffe 109s. I think these are Merlin engined powered 109s probably purchased from the Spanish Air Force in the 1960's. These planes probably appeared in the movie Battel of Britain. Nice freakin film though.

It looks to be computer aided, but I think the aircraft are real.