Author Topic: spanked by a p-38 last night (Read 2886 times)

Toons · « **on:** April 04, 2006, 09:25:32 AM »

not sure exactly what happened, or what i should have done here.

i was flying a f4u-d, and i was getting ready to rtb. had about a quarter tank of fuel.

as i was getting ready to head back to base, a lone p-38 flew ho to me, engaging me. i had about 250 kts. and maybe 7k alt, so i dove for the deck to get speed and extend to disengage. the problem was that i was extending away from base and friendlies, so i pulled up into a loop to reverse direction. sure enough, the p-38 was still back there, about 1000 yards out. as i came over the top, we went head on again, and i continued my loop until i was about 100' feet off the water, heading full blast rtb.

i was giving the plane everything i had, including wep, but after a few seconds i had tracers going by my windshield. i was jinking, but as the tracers kept coming, i wasn't sure if he was closing or losing ground.

i didn't know if i could drag him all the way to friendly territory, so i pulled back into him a third time to engage. as i came over the top, he had angles on me, maybe 600 yds back and shooting. as i went inverted and back nose low, i rolled right 90-110 degrees, and pulled into a left, high yo-yo turn. a few second later, bullets shredded my plane. i bailed, but with no altitude, i couldn't open my chute in time and died.

anyway, any advice in this situation is welcome. i've read the soda's aircraft pages, and i didn't think a p-38 would be able to turn with me, nor climb with me. the bottom line was i should have never let this guy get on my 6...that was poor sa in letting him engage me with me heading towards enemy territory.

i think the guy's name was clnumb or something like that.

thanks,
toons

sharp8th · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2006, 09:31:06 AM »

dont go far form teammates

LYNX · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2006, 09:42:33 AM »

p38 is a good climber. Better than the F4uD. When u looped you played straight into his hands. I would also say the p38 with some flaps is more than adequate to turn with your flap down F4uD.

Hazard69 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2006, 09:48:30 AM »

Toons go here: http://www.netaces.org/ahmain/siteframe.html#title

This is the NetAces Climbrate and Speed evaluation charts for AH.

You will find that at low altitudes the P38L (with WEP) will climb far better than a F4U4....much less an F4U-1.

F4U-1 is faster at lower alts, but a P38 will definitely accelerate much much quicker than a hog.

As for turning, a P38 used to be able to turn with spit9s, now it seems to turn like a 109, but it can still outturn a hog (usually).

bozon · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2006, 10:57:31 AM »

Your 1st mistake was to panic and run - and so you ended up in the wrong direction. 250 mph and 7k is good enough for some dancing around before deciding to disengage. With a better roll, better dive speed and eventually better deck speed, you can time your escape as you please.

Your 2nd mistake was to run ineffectively. By being predictable you allowed him to lead you and cut your turn, but pulling hard pull-up manuvers you blew your energy. In stead of going straight up, do a high speed nose low turn. Offer the 38 a hard deflection shot and then make it harder by pushing yourself under his nose just as he's about to fire and pass under him. Then continue the low G nose low turn to your intended direction.

Finally you decided to fight it out when you lost all your advantages and he's already in a firing position. High yo-yo is almost the worst manuver you could have tried. A scissors fight might have offered you a slim chance of success.

If you had fought him from the start you'd have a good chance to defeat him - or die honorably and learn something about fighting instead of running.

Moral of the day - try fighting before running. You don't really die.

Good luck next fight

Bozon

dedalos · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2006, 11:59:23 AM »

Nice troll

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2006, 02:33:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hazard69

As for turning, a P38 used to be able to turn with spit9s,...

It still can turn with Spitfires, just depends on who's flying the Lightning I guess.

ack-ack

g00b · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2006, 03:44:55 PM »

Against a P-38 using vertical manuevers is suicide.

What you "maybe" should have done. We'll never know since we weren't there.

F4-U has a great dive, if you felt you were disadvantaged from the get go, you should have dove out and run, in the correct direction. Sounds like you ran in the wrong direction initially and blew your E having to get turned around again. Fatal mistake, If you make the decision to run, (no shame in it) do it right! Get that 38 on your tail, go straight down and try and get him to compress and auger, at the least he'll have to slow down to avoid compression, and you'll be able to put some serious distance between you two.

If you have to fight, the F4U has only 2 real advantages on the 38, inital turn and slamming on the brakes. This means scissors, scissors, scissors. Rolling scissors, lateral scissors, vertical scissors, whatever. Throw out full flaps, gear, boat anchor, whatever it takes to get that 38 in front of you. Watch for him to go vertical and try to rope, if you've saved enough energy, you can pop full flaps and hammer him on the way up. Once you get low and slow a smart 38 pilot will eat you up. Your only hope is to force the overshoot and use those monster flaps to get your nose on the 38 before he can re-setup on you.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2006, 03:54:21 PM »

Toons,

You could have stayed in a hard left turn and keep deploying flaps until you have them all down. You will be turning at about 2G's at 115MPH at that speed and after about three turns you will be on his 6 or he will break off.

The only way from that position he could have gotten you would be to go virtical and use a "lag pursuit". The P-38 did not have a great turn radius and it is so in AH. Don't be afraid of slow sustained turns in the F4U in 1 on 1's against other American fighters.

The Fugitive · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2006, 05:32:33 PM »

The 38 compares very closely with the hogs. about the only thing that could have saved you was you knowing the hog VERY well and the 38 pilot NOT knowing the 38 very well.

The 38 can dive as well as a hog and compression isn't a big thing if you know what your doing, 500 knots is just bouncy, but controllable

The 38 slows as well as a hog so unless the 38 driver isn't paying attention the over shoot would be very dificult. Flap deployment, gear and rudders work about the same...the hogs rudder is bigger, but the 38 has 2 of them

The climb rates go to the 38, with the zoom climb being close for both.

Turning the 38 has it hands down.

But like posted already, turning to attack can help more than running because it could force the 38 into a mistake, and planes are cheap

Kweassa · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2006, 06:06:42 PM »

Quote

Turning the 38 has it hands down.

Not the last time I looked.

Quote

Turn Performance Comparisons, version 2.06

Plane Type (SL setting used)
- time to complete tightest possible circle at normal flight (turning speed), radius
- time to complete tightest possible circle, one notch of flaps (turning speed), radius
- time to complete tightest possible circle, full flaps (turning speed), radius

F4U-1 (1.0)
- 20 seconds (154mph), 219.2m
- 21 seconds (138mph), 206.2m
- 20 seconds (106mph), 150.9m

F4U-1D (1.0)
- 19 seconds (160mph), 216.4m
- 19 seconds (149mph), 201.5m
- 19 seconds (110mph), 148.7m

F4U-1C (1.0)
- 21 seconds (162mph), 242.1m
- 20 seconds (150mph), 213.5m
- 20 seconds (110mph), 156.6m

F4U-4 (1.0)
- 19 seconds (168mph), 227.2m
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 18 seconds (113mph), 144.7m

P-38G (0.05)
- 19 seconds (174mph), 235.3m
- 20 seconds (157mph), 223.5m
- 18 seconds (116mph), 148.6m

P-38J (0.05)
- 21 seconds (180mph), 269.0m
- 19 seconds (170mph), 229.9m
- 19 seconds (116mph), 156.8m

P-38L (0.05)
- 21 seconds (184mph), 275.0m
- 19 seconds (169mph), 228.5m
- 19 seconds (119mph), 160.9m

..

SkyRock · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2006, 07:36:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It still can turn with Spitfires, just depends on who's flying the Lightning I guess.

ack-ack

lolz:rofl

SAS_KID · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2006, 09:21:17 PM »

well yall know the 38 is uber hehehe but once u make it hit 150 it drops like a rock now about in a flat turn but in other manuvers i've gotten it to like 125 at the moment but it takes forever to complete a turn. So you could have just done a real slow low turn and tried to get on his 6. So he would "extend" hehehe then rope you most likely or try.

Saxman · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2006, 01:06:08 AM »

Shame on you letting that big, beautiful blue bird die to a measley ol' 38!

Morpheus · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2006, 01:08:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It still can turn with Spitfires, just depends on who's flying the Lightning I guess.

ack-ack

Why you laugh at that skyrock I dont know. I've beat spit5's in a light pony before plenty of times. And with the 38 I've done it more. And yes, like the F4u, it does make all the difference in the world who is flying what and how they're flying it.