The Future of the MA after CT Release

[96Delta]

I think the ultimate resolution of this whole issue
of who is playing the game the 'right way' will be
resolved when "Combat Tour" is released.

If its half as immerse and scenario-like as I
hope it will be then I'll never look back at the MA.
I wonder how many others will also say goodbye
to the MA, at least as their primary arena to play
in.  And when all the NooBs and 'veterans'
start favoring CT, what will become of the MA
and the furball-only crowd?

It will either be one of two things:

1) Become much less populated, making these lusted-after
fullballs harder to find.

2) Nothing will change because CT will fail to live up to
our expectations.

My prediction is that the 475th will eventually go
to the CT because that is where all the real 'action' will be,
as will many of the others who have been so vocal and
negative concerning the strategic aspects of the
game of AH2 on these boards.

CT should be immersive, match planes against one another
that actually dueled in WW2 theaters, and give players a
taste of what it might have been like to be a pilot in
World War II.  

Hitech is betting that there is a market for that and I concur
with his assessment.  He's no dummy and I'd be more than a little surprised
if he didn't have a significant amount of market research in his pocket
to justify the development and marketing of this CT product.

It would be interesting to see a poll asking current players what
they wanted to see in an ideal World War II flight simulator.
Would it be mindless furballing between planes of the same
country that has no resemblance to WW2, or would they want
something a little more closely married to the WW2 experience?

Judging by the success of all the World War II scenario-like
computer games, both online and client-based, I have to
believe that people want a more immersive experience.
Furballing as a fixation is about developing a skill, not
an immersive reliving of history.  

Some of you guys have demonstrated remarkable skill in
dogfighting: SkyRock, KillinU, SHawk, SkatSr and others
always impress me when they land their kills.
I saw someone land 18 kills in a fighter tonight.
Even if a bunch of them were vulches that ain't half
bad.

There's no denying their expertise in this game skill.
But my sense is that these players are atypical and not
representative of the vast majority of players who
wish for something with more of a historical feel and
experience.

Have any of you played IL2 Stormovik: Forgotten Battles?
Ever played it offline?  What amazing air battles there
are!  Masses of Me-109s and Fw190's trying to hold off
scores of Allied B-17 bombers and their escorts.  
Now imagine that there are other live players scattered
around among all those combatants.  Talk about action and
no two battles being the  same and thats just one example!  
I'm telling you, CT is going to revolutionize this game in
ways many of us can't yet appreciate if it lives up to
expectations.

I think people subscribe to games like this because they want
to experience, from the comfort of their own chair, something
of what it was like to fight in World War II.  They've seen
the documentaries, watched the movies and tuned into the
television shows...now they want to take the next step and feel
some of the action.  To participate in winning World War II.

AH2 gives us the World War II planes but not the experience.
I mean really, Rooks, versus, Knights against Bishops?
P-51s against P38's?  Did any of that happen in WW2?
Maps designed for gameplay and not historical feel?
Sorry, but AH2 isn't a World War II game.  It has the
components of a WW2 game but its not an immersive
historical experience.  It is, however, clearly the
framework that such a game can spawn from.
I think of AH2 as a test bed, a proving ground.  Now that
the thing has been tested in an arcade like environment, maybe
its ready to mature into something more.

Moreover, I believe that Hitech knows that the historical
experience is what people are really after. Heck, even Hitech's
own promotional video for this game states that you experience
the "war torn skies of World War II" and further implies that
its a WW2 simulation as the movie features B24's vs. Fw190s,
P-51's shooting down Bf109s and other axis vs. allies matchups.
He knows what people are looking for and is marketing AH2 accordingly.

I think of AH2 and most importantly, the Main Arena, as a step
on the evolutionary ladder of Aces High.  I, for one, can't
wait to play a game that I wished that AH2 was all along: a real,
historically-based World War II air war simulation.  Ah2 is the
closed thing to that in a MMOG.  But once CT is realized and
is further refined and enhanced, I suspect that the MA will
eventually fade away and go the way of the Dodo bird.  Into
oblivion.

My 2 cents.

[Grits]

I disagree.

[WMLute]

Originally posted by Grits
I disagree.

[mars01]

Here is one penny back,

In the days of ole and unfortunately I came in at the end of em - The MA's primary focus was the furball and fighter tactics.  The player population was much smaller and more skilled in the art of AtoA combat.

Then HTC improved and added to the WAR game portion and more new players started comming to the game.  Most of the new players found it hard to compete in the furballs, but found the war effort easy.  

It was about this time that the war effort started creeping up on the furball and fileds would be captured out from under the furball.  Now you have to remember Furballing was the way of the MA so people didn't worry about a base defense.

The community continues to grow from 250 people normally on to about 400 normally on.  More noobs more win the war types, more fields getting back doored and less and less furballs.

Back then fuel being porled was the big problem and furballs really started to disappear.

Then AHII beta appeared and the days of the old furballs were rekindled in the beta arena and much fun was had by all that found the beta arena.

Then AHII was released AHI was dead.  One thing HTC correctly did was to make the fields harder to capture and fuel only porkable to 75%.  This had the affect of making it harder for people to back door bases and helped the furball.  But the unfortunate affect was since it was harder to cap a field and take a base people started to drop the FHrs.

Soon this led to the Buffs thinking they were adding to the capture by dropping FHrs all the time, even if a goon wasnt on the way or a base capture invisioned.

Thus we are left with the current MA.

So when CT/TOD is done, all you strategerists will undoubtedly go there and the MA will hopefully go back to the glory days of AtoA combat.  When furballs were the norm and people spent more time fighting each other than outhouses.

[96Delta]

Originally posted by mars01
So when CT/TOD is done, all you strategerists will undoubtedly go there and the MA will hopefully go back to the glory days of AtoA combat.

Mars, if that would happen it would be great!
Everyone would be happy.

[Guppy35]

Why does it have to be one or the other?  

Why does a person who likes to furball in the MA get disqualified as a lover of history or the potential to fly history based flights?  I'm guessing I could hold my own with just about anyone here in terms of WW2 aviation history (Widewing excluded)  I've spent years researching bomber crews for families of missing aircrew.  But it has nothing to do with wanting to fly bombers in AH.  I'd be bored to tears.

The MA is what it is. It's a place to go mix it up on the deck in a fighter for me. It's not WW2, never will be.  It's a game.  Do I hope CT can provide some of the feel that Scenarios can?  You bet.  But it is still not WW2.  

Understand most of the furballers are scenario vets too, whether it be from Airwarrior, Warbirds or AH.  They can seperate the MA world from what Scenarios provide and hopefully CT will provide.  

It still won't be WW2 though since no one really dies and there is no risk.

Will the 475th be there?  Probably in some way shape or form.  But since it's ETO based it will probably be as part of an ETO based 38 crew although I think AKAK and the boys probably have designs on the 479th  Maybe the 474th would fit since they flew 38s although they were 9th AF.

Either way I'm going to have fun within the game that it is.

[Guppy35]

As an afterthought, I'd guess that a lot of the  'strategist' won't have the attention span for CT as it won't be low level buffs to the next airfield over and living will take on a greater importance since they'll be flying a tour.

The immediate gratification of blowing up the latest building won't be there.

This will apply to some furballers too

[eh]

I have been waiting for the Combat Tour  to arrive since it was first announced in 2002 (?).  Don't hold your breath, folks.

[hubsonfire]

Delta, you make incorrect assumptions. CT is not aimed at us. The MA will be pretty much as it is now. We'll lose roughly proportionate numbers of bomber and fighter pilots, for at least a few weeks. Then, you'll all be back.

So sayeth I, Hubks Caesar.

[Flayed1]

I think CT will be fun in some respect but I will always love the free form of the MA.  I am one of the hated stratageers, I play to win the war I bomb FH's though I do it from 20 to 30K. If I have taken alllll that time to gain that alt to bomb something I will bomb it with or with out a goon on the way.

  If the furballers don't like it get your 152's 262's Spit-14's and the like up there and put a cap in my ***! Show me your Uber figher pilot skills shoot me down I dare you. We now have gun shake to make it even harder for us Buff dweebs to hit you.
   
  I loved it a few maps ago we took a 25K flight of 24's to pound a rook base close to reset and we got shedded by 163's 152's 190's, Typh's and 109's but it was still fun. So next we took up a big flight of 17's to 30K we got hit hard but managed to kill all FH's on the large base we went after with only a few of us making it back. This was fun as all hell, rooks came up to stop us bomber dweebs and almost made our mission fail but we just managed to pull it off.

 This sounds alot like what CT would be except for the fact that all  the guys that were trying to shoot us down were real not some computer.  I love real player interaction and Give a big   to the guys that were willing to come up there and try to kick the sh** out of us.

  I will most likely play in CT some but I will always be hanging around the MA to Bomb stuff.

[gatt]

Originally posted by 96Delta
Have any of you played IL2 Stormovik: Forgotten Battles?
Ever played it offline?  What amazing air battles there
are!

Yes, I did and I found it the more stupid air combat environment I've ever seen. Have you ever played AH's or (even better) WB's big scenarios? *Those* are air (nicely simulated) combat missions.

[FX1]

I play to kill! Main, CT what ever just as long has i can get my good old pm's from my pray (:

[straffo]

Originally posted by mars01
Here is one penny back,

In the days of ole and unfortunately I came in at the end of em - The MA's primary focus was the furball and fighter tactics.  The player population was much smaller and more skilled in the art of AtoA combat.

You don't remember the 20K bomber using laser guided bombs ?

[CHECKERS]

Originally posted by Guppy35
As an afterthought, I'd guess that a lot of the  'strategist' won't have the attention span for CT as it won't be low level buffs to the next airfield over and living will take on a greater importance since they'll be flying a tour.

The immediate gratification of blowing up the latest building won't be there.

This will apply to some furballers too

  Guppy I agree ,
 After the mass exodus of strategist ..... and the bordom sets in ...
 I hope that the  CT retains  more  player numbers that fills the virtual skys  of the WB  goast town  FR  ww2 arena .....

As for my 2 cents.....
 ........ No thanks, I'll just continue to be an uneducated clueless dogfighting  arcade player fighting A to A in the MA , in the closest,biggest, nastyest  furballs I can find ,  without any  idea of how to play the AH  strat game right,
 I would rather go mow the lawn or shovel crap against the incoming tide, then fly  strat missions .... It just dosen't do squat for me ......


 I also wish the CT and it's roleplaying 'stategist's fans, all the best of luck  .
 The HTC crew has been working on it for a long time and I'm sure it will be the best of the best . ...

[Jackal1]

I haven`t been keeping up with the CT development much as of late. I just went to the CT forum and had a quick scan. When I first started reading some of the comments here I thought maybe the direction of CT had taken a new turn during latter development from what I understood in the beginning.
As far as I can tell it`s still on the same track as originaly detailed. I`d like to hear from some of the guys doing beta if I have some misconceptions wrong as I am sure I do, if they are allowed to do so.
Here is my take on it from my limited knowledge. I believe CT will form a whole new player base, for the most part, as it has been stated that was mainly the intention. I beleive it will draw those that are mainly into boxed sims and form from there to create an entirely different player base than has ever been experienced in an online sim/game....whatever you wish to call it. This is a good thing.
What I don`t beleive it will have any major effect on is the old hand, dyed in the wool MA type player. By this I mean those of us who have been around for a number of years, through the advancement of a few games and ended up here, to play in the MA for the most part.
I will predict , that as far as MA players goes, there will be an initial influx just out of curiousity. I`d say within a month of release you will see most of the MA players come back to the MA for the most part. I think some MA players will participate on an occasional basis and as a break in the routine sort of like is done with those who enjoy flying scenarios at the present time.
As far as the current MA player base is concerned, I see where some beleive that the strategists that are currently in the MA will end up in CT. First of, I would like to ask...what strategists? In the MA I have seen very few that I would consider true strategists. When I witness the operation of a true strategist such as GHI/Fariz, etc. in the MA and see what they can do in a short period of time concerning  base capture and directing many different operations and sorties to achive the intended goal, it becomes obvious to me just how few strategists there are in the MA. Most of the really large squads I see in the MA that promote themselvs as strategists are way off the mark. Most take the approach of tunnel vision and devote overkill to single targets and IMHO to ones that make no sense to me as far as base capture, strategy to WIN the game, etc. Not dissing them for this because that is what they enjoy, but it certainly has noting to do with strategy.
If a true strategist were to make a dedicated effort in the MA on a regular basis and had the numbers and cooperation of some of these squads do, they would probably be the most hated squad by two countries due to the fact that it is really pretty simple to dominate and advance the end goal with a little thought , planning and insight. It just don`t happen in the MA because everyone has their own definition of fun and will not put that much effort into it on a regualr basis.
I think CT will have some postive effects on the MA. That being that I believe the younger, box game player will go to the CT instead of the MA by a big percentage. I beleive some will get wrapped up in this type game, but I also believe there will be a big turnover with the young, new to WWII sims/games such as we witness in the MA now. I believe this will have the effect on the MA to the point of reverting MA play back more to the type gameplay we were used to in the MA before the big influx of players.
I also believe the few true strategist that we have in the MA now will be disapointed withthe CT in a pretty short time due to, as I understand it, the individual will not have a lot of say in planning execution, etc.
I don`t think we will see quite as much of the random , seemingly pointless porking of fields that have no bearing on anything that we are seeing in the MA now due to the younger player iniatialy going to CT.
For the most part, I beleive the MA players that have been around for a while will tend to stay in the MA for the most part.
Like I said in the begining, maybe I am misunderstanding CT a lot and would like to hear the view points of those in the know.