I can be jesus too!

[MiloMorai]

The Bible is not such a bad history book.

Does not the Bible say that all will be forgiven? So how, if all is forgiven, can one go to Hell?

[storch]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
The Bible is not such a bad history book.

Does not the Bible say that all will be forgiven? So how, if all is forgiven, can one go to Hell?

please show me where in the bible it says that forgiveness is unconditional.  I may have missed that part in my extensive studies and I'm always willing to learn something new.  IIRC correctly Jesus is very clear on what one thing is required for salvation eg. forgiveness.

[eagl]

Not gonna bite storch

If you're serious, you're a loon just like the islamist extremists.  You don't LOOK crazy, so you've gotta be trolling.

Besides, you're wrong.  From your own statements, it's clear that you're the one going to hell when you die.  Your statements, if you were serious which you can't possibly be, show that you would be very clearly guilty of false idolatry and self-worship.  Only someone who worships their own feeling of moral superiority would make the claims and statements that you have made in this thread.  This is a fact, and if you continue your self-worship you will burn for all eternity.  You dare to judge others, dare to condemn souls to hell, and dare to claim a place in heaven, yet these things are of the Lord ONLY and to claim them as your own is to put yourself above the Lord.  That voice telling you that you are saved and others are damned is the voice of the snake, the deceiver, for your words on the truth and the light are not the words of the Lord.  You've strayed far from the book you hold as Truth.

Dude, if you believe the nonsense you've been posting, you're going to hell.  Really.

[storch]

well now analyze what I've said.

1. I'm a very poor example of a Christian
2. I've quoted Jesus
3. I've clearly admitted that I'm morally deficient.

the only thing I've said is that I'm 100% correct.  that seems to offend some.  but that's fine jesus said that it would.  some day in the not so distant future it may be cause for arrest to think the way I do.  It has been in the past and is true currently in most mohammadan countries.  Jesus stated that this was going to happen so no surprise there.

and finally, there is no way I'm going to hell, I have an all access pass to hang around with God as soon as I transition.

[john9001]

was Lott's wife turned into kosher salt or regular table salt?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by storch
well now analyze what I've said.

1. I'm a very poor example of a Christian
2. I've quoted Jesus
3. I've clearly admitted that I'm morally deficient.

the only thing I've said is that I'm 100% correct.  that seems to offend some.  but that's fine jesus said that it would.  some day in the not so distant future it may be cause for arrest to think the way I do.  It has been in the past and is true currently in most mohammadan countries.  Jesus stated that this was going to happen so no surprise there.

and finally, there is no way I'm going to hell, I have an all access pass to hang around with God as soon as I transition.

Hey good for you storch.  These guys can bash you all you want for your beleifs but that's about ALL they can do.  Most men don't realize it's not about religion its about faith.  religion is an IDEA created by MAN to become/feel closer to god.  Where as with faith its that god created jesus to become closer to man.  The only perfect person to live should die for everyone elses wrong doings.

While I don't hate any of you for your disbeleif and I might be sharing that firepit with you some day I don't think its right to compare a simple person who has faith in christ to an islamic extremest.  There's nothing extreme about most christians and 98% would never become mass murders for their faith whil bastardizing the language and calling it martyrdom.

[eagl]

Guns,

Remember that because I have faith, I am also 100% correct.  And according to the logic that makes Storch's faith also 100%, those islamist extremists are also 100% correct, because as you say, it's a matter of faith, not religion.  You're letting your worldly facts about who should be killing who get in the way of your accepting someone's faith.

So one faith is ok, another is not, merely because of the trappings and traditions surrounding the religion?

Ok, I'll get to my real thoughts here now that you've made my point for me...

You're in the position of legitimizing personal truths based on faith alone, while defending one faith and decrying another.  That's the whole reason I bothered to post in this thread...  To point out that while each faith may be true to the individual, that's where the truth ends.  That's why storch proclaiming not that the personal truth of his faith means others are going to hell is JUST AS INVALID as the islamist view that the personal truth of their faith means everyone else ought to be killed.

You can't have it both ways...  I THINK (not believe... THINK) that proclamations like the ones storch makes throughout this thread are 100% invalid because he is trying to apply his faith to others, and his attempts at placing others under the judgement of his faith-based personal truths are signs of the same sort of delusion the islamists are under.  The only difference is that the islamists are violent, and storch (to my knowledge) is not.

Yes the lack of violence is a pretty big difference, but the underlying bigotry and deluded self-worship are the same.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by eagl
Guns,

Remember that because I have faith, I am also 100% correct.  And according to the logic that makes Storch's faith also 100%, those islamist extremists are also 100% correct, because as you say, it's a matter of faith, not religion.  You're letting your worldly facts about who should be killing who get in the way of your accepting someone's faith.

So one faith is ok, another is not, merely because of the trappings and traditions surrounding the religion?

Ok, I'll get to my real thoughts here now that you've made my point for me...

You're in the position of legitimizing personal truths based on faith alone, while defending one faith and decrying another.  That's the whole reason I bothered to post in this thread...  To point out that while each faith may be true to the individual, that's where the truth ends.  That's why storch proclaiming not that the personal truth of his faith means others are going to hell is JUST AS INVALID as the islamist view that the personal truth of their faith means everyone else ought to be killed.

You can't have it both ways...  I THINK (not believe... THINK) that proclamations like the ones storch makes throughout this thread are 100% invalid because he is trying to apply his faith to others, and his attempts at placing others under the judgement of his faith-based personal truths are signs of the same sort of delusion the islamists are under.  The only difference is that the islamists are violent, and storch (to my knowledge) is not.

Yes the lack of violence is a pretty big difference, but the underlying bigotry and deluded self-worship are the same.

SIR,

point out to me where I said anything bad about anyone else's faith or where it is wrong.  I only pointed out that a christian, because of their faith (be it strong or weak), is nothing close to comparable to an islamic extremest.  I'm not saying that islam is wrong, i'm saying MASS-MURDER is.....by an legal, moral, or religious standard.  

I also aplauded storch for standing by his convictions against the ridicule of others.  I don't agree with him telling people point blank they are going to hell (that's negative reinforcment), and I would definatly preferr that ANYONE point out the good that the majority of christians do for others and their community vrs pointing out the bad in others.

Some can ramble on about how religion is bad....bla bla bla....christian conservatives....blah blah blah.  When we all know that that most of the bad stuff prople bring up in this bbs about christians do not represent a valid cross section of the demographic.  


Flame away, I don't give a dam but try not to put words in my mouth because you have a preconceived notion of what you think I am/represent.  That would be an ASSumption

[eagl]

Guns, simmer down a bit.

Storch wasn't standing up for himself.  He was damning everyone else to hell.  Look at his first few posts.

The bigotry and self-worship displayed by someone who, in public, proclaims his own sanctity and damns others is the same evil that leads islamists to proclaim their own brand of hatred.

Supporting one flavor of religious bigot while decrying another smacks of hypocracy, regardless of whether they're Christian, Muslim, or merely some whacko cult.  You're saying that it's ok for storch to defend himself by claiming that he has the universal truth and others are damned to hell, and that it's somehow different when he says it from when other religions say it.  I'm saying that they're both wrong, and the fact that most Christians in this century don't go around crusading doesn't change the fact that they're both deluded when they try to APPLY their FAITH to others who do not share in their faith.

Keep in mind that in MANY cultures and religions, what Storch said, damning others to hell, is a worse assault than if he'd punched them in the face.  He applied his religion to others, and I'm calling him on it, plain and simple.  You brought yourself into this by defending him.

[Schwein]

Eagl is my new hero.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by storch
in every document ever discovered there is a minuscule variation with what we have in the KJV and these anomalies amount to semantics.  the bible is the inerrant word of God, it has come down to us supernaturally to serve as a guide.  we will be here for a short season then we will continue or eternal journey.  you have a test before you.  you are failing it and in doing so you are fulfilling biblical prophesy.

Storch, they aren't always just miniscule variations.  Some are outright later additions.  In other words, they didn't exist when the documents were first written.  To put it plainly, your KJV includes many passages that never happened - that some earthly author with an agenda threw in there at a later date.

What's more, when there is a miniscule variation (say, a word), there's often a pretty big consequence in meaning.  I don't have examples with me, though, so take it or leave it.

Also, in your studies, did you ever find out just how exactly the New Testament came to be?  Ever hear of the two councils at Carthage?  Where bishops debated, picked and choosed which texts would be regarded as sacred?  As everyone should know by now, given the events of the past few years, church officials are far from infallible.  So how can we say they chose correctly?

I'm sorry to say this, I don't want to pick on those with faith (it's a good thing), but if you're going to take the Bible for word for word fact, you're sticking your head in the sand.  If you take the Bible as a rough guide, you might be on to something.

If taking the Bible, cross referencing with history and science, leading me to believe that some events probably happened but definately not word for word as proclaimed makes me a prime candidate to burn in hell, I guess I'm guilty as charged.  Personally, I think God will forgive my curiousity.  Why would he give me it, if he didn't want me to use it?

Heck, I believe in God and that he created this whole place.  I don't believe he did it in seven 24 hour periods.  I do believe he added on to this old house via Evolution.

I believe a great regional flood happened, hell, maybe truly because the people in the region needed a lesson.  But I sure don't believe it completely covered the earth, at least not since humans have been around.

I believe Jesus was a great man, who sincerely wanted to help the rest of us, and who died an agonizing death for his efforts.  I admire and respect him, and try to remember the core values behind his teachings.  But I'm not sure that he was the Son of God anymore then the rest of us.

Finally, I believe that you could be a complete atheist and yet still get into heaven.  It's about what you do in life, how you act towards other, and if you repent when you do stumble and mistake.  It's not about taking some text word for word.  It's about having the virtues and lacking the vices described in it.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by eagl
deluded when they try to APPLY their FAITH to others who do not share in their faith.

....decrying another

....underlying bigotry and deluded self-worship


 

These  are your words.....not mine sir.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Gunslinger


.....I don't agree with him telling people point blank they are going to hell (that's negative reinforcment)....

my words

[storch]

I think it was a pillar of salt but seeing that she disobeyed her husband and by extension God I would say a pillar of table salt.

[storch]

I'm not telling anyone they are going to hell.  Jesus is telling them them they are going to hell, I'm merely pointing out the fact they are going to hell according to the mythological figure they disdain.  furthermore I'm offering travel wardrobe advice so they don't suffer scorchedbuttitis after they meet the the true God at the instant of transition.  wally world might sell asbestos underware, check it out.