Author Topic: Furballs vs Shedders: Developmental Perspective (Read 3506 times)

Zazen13 · « **Reply #30 on:** April 11, 2006, 09:55:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01
Funny Dok you say Zaz is beating a dead horse, but yet here you stand with you stick taking your whacks. You don't like the topic, go away and STFU. You guys keep crying about the same old topic, here is a news flash.. IF you don't post the topic goes away.

Haha, no kidding mars. Dok reminds me of a little kid with a scab on his knee that just can't stop picking at it, even if doing so is painfull and makes it bleed, he just can't help himself. Then once it gets inflamed and infected he tries to blame others for his discomfort..

Zazen

Kev367th · « **Reply #31 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:09:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01

I would think it is evenly split. FT always has a large number of participants. If it didn't you guys wouldn't even be here trying to say it doesn't. Even if it doesn't there are at least 50 to 100 people prime time, so whay wouldn't HT want to accomodate them as well as you tool heros. You have the rest of the frilkin map, do you really need three more bases to play your game. Sheeesh.

Well considering prime time now has in excess of 500 players usually, I would hardly say 50 to 100 is an 'even split'.
In fact you've just reduced my estimate of 1/4, down to 1/5 maximum.

So the question becomes -
Is it economically sound for HT to spend the time changing code to accomodate around 20% (maximum) of the players?
Or spend his time on other parts of the game affecting 80% of the players?

Know what I'd be doing.

Don't get me wrong, I just think the time required to change the code wouldn't be worth it with other projects (TOD, bug-fixes, patches etc) ongoing.

mars01 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:32:01 AM »

LOL kev,

That is an guesstimate, I have no hard numbers, nor have I been able to log enough hours.

"Even if it doesn't there are at least 50 to 100 people prime time"

I said at least because I am not counting cons I am fighting. But from my limited time there I think there are plenty that enjoy FT to make it worth the effort.

Now if you are saying all of HTC will forget about all the old loyal customers as he tries to develope TOD for the new ones then that will be a mistake.

CAV · « **Reply #33 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:33:14 AM »

I would say a 100+ is about right for FT. Players are popping in & out of FT all the time. Furballers & toolshedders alike. I think most "capture" players are like me... they like to get low and turn & burn at times too. So odds are 98% all players would like to see an FT on all the maps.

Where this discussion falls apart for me is the so called Furballs outside of FT areas... it looks to me that some think that anytime a fuball forms it needs to be "off limits" to capture attacks. So they can have their fun without anyone bugging them. On that I am having a hard time feeling the love for...

So the sooner we get more maps with FT on them the happier we will all be.

CAVALRY

Kev367th · « **Reply #34 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:36:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01
LOL kev,

That is an guesstimate, I have no hard numbers, nor have I been able to log enough hours.

"Even if it doesn't there are at least 50 to 100 people prime time"

I said at least because I am not counting cons I am fighting. But from my limited time there I think there are plenty that enjoy FT to make it worth the effort.

Now if you are saying all of HTC will forget about all the old loyal customers as he tries to develope TOD for the new ones then that will be a mistake.

Understood it was guesstimate, and I don't think you're far off.

Not a question of forgetting, but prioritising. Where do you put your main effort / resources?
Only a small company after all.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #35 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:47:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by CAV
IWhere this discussion falls apart for me is the so called Furballs outside of FT areas... it looks to me that some think that anytime a fuball forms it needs to be "off limits" to capture attacks. So they can have their fun without anyone bugging them. On that I am having a hard time feeling the love for...

CAVALRY

That's not it at all actually. The problem is the toolshedding griefers floating around heavy (bomber or jabo) dropping FH's that are not attempting or part of any capture attempt at all. We have no problems with base capturing in and of itself even if it means the end of a good fight. To the victor go the spoils and whatnot...The problem is griefers who are toolshedding FHs down for the sole reason of ending good fights for which they have some irrational contempt...

Zazen

mars01 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:55:30 AM »

Quote

That's not it at all actually. The problem is the toolshedding griefers floating around heavy (bomber or jabo) dropping FH's that are not attempting or part of any capture attempt at all. I have no problems with base capturing in and of itself even if it means the end of a good fight. To the victor go the spoils and whatnot...The problem is griefers who are toolshedding FHs down for the sole reason of ending good fights for which they have some irrational contempt...

I would have to agree with this. The question is, the guys that have no intention of capturing a base but drop the hangers... What camp are they in Griefers or Toolshedders?

FiLtH · « **Reply #37 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:56:31 AM »

I think alot of them are either new, trying stuff out, or bored, or thinking they are helping, or they tried to get a goon in twice and the fighters werent keeping the enemy down, so they took the matter in their own hands.

This is like the 20th thread in the past two weeks on the matter. The fact is, no matter how much people complain, or try to teach people to take the town first and the hangers as a last resort, there will always be Mike4673 that will come into the game and just go bomb stuff.

The best thing to do is accept that this is the design of the game at the moment, and hopefully future changes will allow fights to continue during base capture attempts.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #38 on:** April 11, 2006, 11:00:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
The fact is, no matter how much people complain, or try to teach people to take the town first and the hangers as a last resort, there will always be Mike4673 that will come into the game and just go bomb stuff.

The problem isn't random noob #786214 acting alone and with random incompetance befitting a newbie. The problem is the highly co-ordinated effort to grief FHs/fights for it's own sake by noobs who are having their puppet strings operated by a few veteran players who definately know better, but do it anyway just to get some attention and watermelon on other's fun. The part that needs to be balanced by HTC is the incredibly disproportionate negative impact a relatively small fraction of the community is having on a much larger fraction.

Zazen

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #39 on:** April 11, 2006, 11:10:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01
Funny Dok you say Zaz is beating a dead horse, but yet here you stand with you stick taking your whacks. You don't like the topic, go away and STFU. You guys keep crying about the same old topic, here is a news flash.. IF you don't post the topic goes away.

Read the thread ... carefully ... I'd let it drop ... Your Hero is the one who let his agenda creep back into things ... and now, once he has another follower - especially a BK (he's a groupie, you know), he's cranking up the personal attacks again, with you as his ally.

Soooo ... now that a couple of BK's say that FT usually is around 100 people, what say ye, Zazen? Lets see that awesome New Math kick in.

This thread was making progress, but Your Hero has to keep slinging the same rhetoric which just side tracks things into the argument he wants to prolong and into getting his agenda forwarded. That's NOT the same as trying to find a solution which works for everyone, that's just trying to get "your way."

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #40 on:** April 11, 2006, 11:11:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zazen13
T... The problem is the highly co-ordinated effort to grief FHs/fights for it's own sake by noobs who are having their puppet strings operated by a few veteran players who definately know better, but do it anyway just to get some attention and watermelon on other's fun. ...

See what I mean, Mars?

Toad · « **Reply #41 on:** April 11, 2006, 11:44:01 AM »

Solutions that work for everyone have been proposed many times.

It's that implementation phase..............

Donzo · « **Reply #42 on:** April 11, 2006, 11:56:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zazen13
That's not it at all actually. The problem is the toolshedding griefers floating around heavy (bomber or jabo) dropping FH's that are not attempting or part of any capture attempt at all.

What exactly is your method for determining that hangers are being dropped for a caputre or not?
Is it a pre-determined period of time?

"Damn! Hangers down. I'll wait 2 minutes to see if the base is captured, if not I'm gonna be pissed because they are just dropping the hangers to spoil my fun!"

With so much going on, how in the he11 can you determine why some hangers were dropped? Maybe some inside knowledge as to if there are any goons otw?

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #43 on:** April 11, 2006, 12:14:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Solutions that work for everyone have been proposed many times.

It's that implementation phase..............

Yeah ... and until CT is out (and patched a couple times) this is all moot because HTC doesn't likely have resources to work on the MA now.

But some small things ...like removing ord and troops from FT ... cranking hardness on ground targets ... those are just arena settings. That could be done.

CAV · « **Reply #44 on:** April 11, 2006, 12:31:10 PM »

Most guys trying to take a base want the FH/BH's useable for the next attack. The thing is few attacks go as planned...

1) The attack comes in... drops the VH.

2) kills the AAA.

3) Starts working the town.

4) Caps the base...

All looks well.... But fighters are upping faster than the cap can kill, Goons are having a hard time getting in.

To many fighters are getting up for the attack to work....

Attacking force goes to plan B.... Dropping the FH's stopping the uppers.
Goons goes in... base is taken.

Happens each night in the MA.... How do you tell the who the griefers are?
Most all furballs start as a base capture attack right? Do attacks have to stop if a furball forms?

I was thinking a fix for this.......

Why do we need to kill the town at all to take a base? Maybe just make it that the town can't be at a 100%, some part of the town has to be down for the troops to count.
And why not up the number troops needed to take a target... I do not know what good number is but say 100 troops (10 goons loads) no time limits for the capture. Once you get the right number of troops in it is your. Harden the things on the base some. Fix the other targets (factories) so they have more of an effect on game play. (type of planes, Ammo, Fuel, etc) So the buff driver have a reason to fly.

Now you you no longer need to kill everthing on a base to capture it... but if needed it can be... just harder to do. Missions goes from killing and capping a base, to covering goons to target area. No need to bomb the place to the ground.... just AAA, GV's stuff's.

So furballs still happen, maybe larger ones, Captures still happen just a new way to do it.

But what do I know...

CAVALRY