Author Topic: Global Warming...not!  (Read 2498 times)

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2006, 08:03:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
If global warming means chicks wear less I'm all for it  :aok


Godamn man, most of the time your just a worthless sheep molester, but sometimes you make a point! :D

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2006, 09:20:15 PM »
My father-in-law says that the weather cycles warm and cold every 30 years.  He’s 86, old enough to see a pattern.

Offline NattyIced

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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2006, 09:24:39 PM »
Warming and cooling (freezing) cycles are far bigger than that. We're at the upside of a warming trend. The Earth has it's natural cycles which stretch thousands to tens of thousands of years.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2006, 10:19:47 PM »
If man is responsible for global warming, who is responsible for the multiple cycles of ice ages and global warming that happened before the arrival of large populations of indistrialized man?
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2006, 11:18:22 PM »
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Originally posted by Dowding
Holden - strange you should mention Newton and Einstein in relation to your 'exception rule'. It was Einstein that proved Newtonian physics to be flawed in reference to light propagation in a gravitational field. Yet Newtonian physics has not been discarded?

It looks like science isn't abiding by your particular ruleset.


It isn't strange at all, it is by design.

That general relativity found that Newtons gravity theory needed tweaking for the circumstances that relativity considers is one of the great leaps of science.  That such a trusted and accepted fact was flawed and that a relatively (pun intended) unknown Swiss patent clerk could upset the great Issac Newton's ideas shows that we all hold veto power over the scientific consensus.

In the Newton - Einstein example consensus lost to an idea of a single individual.
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2006, 11:21:49 PM »
Straight up, Holden. No equivocation.

Global warming - do you buy it or not?

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2006, 11:33:38 PM »
That there is warming?

For the last 12,000 years there has been warming.  Your house would have been under 1000 m of ice if it were in existance 10,000 years ago.

That we have caused a runaway warming trend, or we are about to?

The amount of the current warming trend that is anthropormorphic is up for debate.  Computer models show a great amount of flexibility in what the climate might be like 100 years from now.  The design of the model seems to be up to what the model designer wants the outcome to be.

The climate is way to chaotically driven to be absolute on predictions.

The Kyoto treaty was written with the proviso that, "Hey it sure looks like it's warming and it looks we may be the cause and we better start doing something about it now in case we are right."

The consensus sure seems to be sure on roughly the same evidence that we were unsure of just 5 years ago.
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Offline Sabre

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« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2006, 12:13:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Sabre - you didn't answer a single point in my original post concerning your source, in particular the Climate Research Unit.

As for wrecking the world economy, that's precisely the kind of 'doomsday' scenario you accuse many scientists of pushing. Alternative fuel sources would be found, and it would be the Western and developed world providing them.


And you addressed neither of my responses to yours.  I didn't bother to address your "point" about the author not providing the nicety of a link because it is irrelevant; the author quotes a source, one that is easily verified or refuted by a quick google search; that is the minimum required.  It seems a poor debating tactic to dismiss the author on the grounds that you can't be bothered to check the quoted source.  Still, for the google-challenged, here you go...  http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/

You have to do a bit of correllating of the data, which is probably why he didn't link to a nice graphic for your benefit.

Again, however, I believe you're missing the point of the article, which is that the global warming crisis has been manufactured, and that the reason more scientists haven't spoken up about their doubts is due in part to group-think and academic intimidation.  You're right about one thing; this is an opinion piece, and neither the author nor the publication denies it.  The scientific facts included are easy enough to verify; their interpretation is exactly what is at issue.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2006, 01:03:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
If man is responsible for global warming, who is responsible for the multiple cycles of ice ages and global warming that happened before the arrival of large populations of indistrialized man?


George W Bush, retroactively of course.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2006, 01:11:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
That there is warming?

For the last 12,000 years there has been warming.  Your house would have been under 1000 m of ice if it were in existance 10,000 years ago.

That we have caused a runaway warming trend, or we are about to?

The amount of the current warming trend that is anthropormorphic is up for debate.  Computer models show a great amount of flexibility in what the climate might be like 100 years from now.  The design of the model seems to be up to what the model designer wants the outcome to be.

The climate is way to chaotically driven to be absolute on predictions.

The Kyoto treaty was written with the proviso that, "Hey it sure looks like it's warming and it looks we may be the cause and we better start doing something about it now in case we are right."

The consensus sure seems to be sure on roughly the same evidence that we were unsure of just 5 years ago.


I wasn't really asking about Kyoto.

I was asking about what you answered here:

Quote
The amount of the current warming trend that is anthropormorphic is up for debate.  Computer models show a great amount of flexibility in what the climate might be like 100 years from now.  The design of the model seems to be up to what the model designer wants the outcome to be.


Great.

Have scientists formed some kind of political block that I'm unaware of?

They're converging upon a consensus, no?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 01:18:03 AM by Nash »

Offline weaselsan

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« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2006, 07:58:41 AM »
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Originally posted by Dowding
Besides, it coincides quite nicely with my views on geo-politics.


Pretty much says it all.

Offline NattyIced

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« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2006, 08:02:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
If man is responsible for global warming, who is responsible for the multiple cycles of ice ages and global warming that happened before the arrival of large populations of indistrialized man?


Those damn neanderthals that invented fire. :mad:

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2006, 08:19:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NattyIced
Warming and cooling (freezing) cycles are far bigger than that. We're at the upside of a warming trend. The Earth has it's natural cycles which stretch thousands to tens of thousands of years.


There are also minicycles inbetween.
Caught a show on some channel I forget which a couple weeks ago about the mini ice age that occured  during the middle ages. And lasted several hundred years
Which gave examples and a potential explaination as to why, Greenalnd was named as such and why the Vikings eventually abandoned it.
 Basically saying that when they first got there Greenland was indeed very green. But the colding trend combined with their refusal to adapt to the native populations ways of securing food when the weather grew consistantly colder caused them to abandon the settlement.

was really a very interesting show
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2006, 08:22:27 AM »
I suppose the world needs gullible people like dowding and beet.... glad they are concentrated on one tiny little insignificant island tho.

lazs

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2006, 08:24:33 AM »
Looking on the wweb to see if I can find something on that specific show I saw.
 Failing to do that yet. I did find this. which is close tot he same thing.

"From around 800 A.D. to 1200 or 1300, the globe warmed again considerably and civilization prospered. This warm era displays, although less distinctly, many of the same characteristics as the earlier period of clement weather. Virtually all of northern Europe, the British Isles, Scandinavia, Greenland, and Iceland were considerably warmer than at present. The Mediterranean, the Near East, and North Africa, including the Sahara, received more rainfall than they do today. During this period of the High Middle Ages, most of North America also enjoyed better weather. In the early centuries of the epoch, China experienced higher temperatures and a more clement climate. From Western Europe to China, East Asia, India, and the Americas, mankind flourished as never before.

This prosperous period collapsed at the end of the thirteenth century with the advent of the "Mini Ice Age" which, at its most frigid, produced temperatures in central England for January about 4.5deg.F colder than today. Although the climate fluctuated, periods of cold damp weather lasted until the early part of the nineteenth century. During the chilliest decades, 5 to 15 percent less rain fell in Europe than does normally today; but, due to less evaporation because of the low temperatures, swampy conditions were more prevalent. As a result, in the fourteenth century the population explosion came to an abrupt halt; economic activity slowed; lives shortened as disease spread and diets deteriorated"


http://www.stanford.edu/~moore/history_health.html
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