Broke off a sparkplug!!!!!

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by Widewing
I'd go further than that and strongly recommend using anti-seize compound on all spark plugs installed in any engine. Also, torque the plugs to factory specs using a torque wrench.

If you use anti-seize, you need to increase the torque a couple a pounds.  I once ruined a aluminum head by using anti-seize and only torqueing to normal specs...the plugs backed out enough to oval out the plug holes, which eventually shot one of the plugs out of the head like a missile.  Ended up having to helicoil all 4 plug holes.

BTW...I'm with KGB on this...pull the head.  More than likely the threads are hosed anyway and will need repair.  I think doing the ez-out will be tougher than it seems since a plug is not like a solid bolt...the threads are just a ring surrounding the plug core.  I think it is probably likely that under enough strain to remove the remaining plug with an ez-out will cause the plug to come apart and drop bits into the combusiton chamber...again leading to head removal to clean up.

Since you have to pull the head and might as well have it re-built while it is off, you might consider having steel helicoils replace the aluminum threads on the plug holes...that way you can run any plug you like.

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Morpheus
SO let say that drillings fall on top of the valve. Where do they go when the valve opens up?

LOL service center doing brakes didnt teach you much did it.

Well, if the the drill shavings fall into the cylinder, get a magnet and get as much out as you can.  I ve never been in this situation but have known  a cupple of guys who have, and thye both managed to get them out without removing the head.  They make several types of ez outs, some are designed not to have to go very deep into the object (sqauared ends), that way you can crush the ceramic and blow most of the bits out with compressed air, the spark end of the plug should keep all the big stuff out.  I am not a car mechanic, but wouldnt the other stuff get blowed out the exhaust?

[wrag]

Word from a couple of mechanics for a living type friends.....

If an EZ-out is used then use the SQUARE type which tends to use cutting into the metal to work vs the spiral type which tends to use more friction rather then cutting into the metal to work.  Spiral type tends to cause the sparkplug ring of metal to expand and bind.

Be very very careful of ceramic material falling into chamber! It can and most likely will eat a valve as heat will do little to it and a magnet will not pick it up.  Metal shaving IF SMALL will tend to blow out with the exhaust as the heat more readily affects the metal.  Use a magnet to get out all metal particules that you can.

Remove any remaining ceramic material carefully.  Use a drill on ceramic material only as the LAST resort.  Do not use compressed air to remove the chips of ceramic material!  Use a vaccum to remove any chips of ceramic particals.

It's frackin cold outside right now and raining off and on so, giving the penetrating oil more time to do it's job and waiting on the weather.

[stantond]

I have found liquid wrench to be a very useful tool when working on things like that.  While I am not quite sure exactly what is remaining in the head, it sounds like the ceramic is still connected to some piece of metal with threads.  Try putting liquid wrench on the threaded area, give it several hours (or overnight) to soak and see if the offending plug will come out using your finger (or maybe some needle nose pliers).  

Another alternative is to use an adhesive, such as JB weld to bond a rod onto the plug.  Once the adhesive has set up, the rod can be turned with pliers to remove the plug.  If that approach is used, don't put on liquid wrench until after the JB weld has cured.  

If drilling the plug for the ez out looks like the best path, once you hit the ceramic it will break.  If it doesn't fall into the cylinder you are good.  If it does, then maybe a tube connected to a shop vacuum might get it out.  A borescope would be very useful then.

Personally, if this isn't a diesel and the liquid wrench w/finger/pliers did work  I'd just pull the head.  While it may seem like a lot of work, you will never again put a steel plug into an aluminum head without anti-sieze.  Of course, an alternative is to have the car towed to Bubba's garage where they will charge you $500+ for getting the plug out and may still leave debris in the cylinder.

Sometimes, what should be a very simple job turns out to be difficult.  


Good Luck!

Malta

[Casca]

Originally posted by wrag
Word from a couple of mechanics for a living type friends.....

If an EZ-out is used then use the SQUARE type which tends to use cutting into the metal to work vs the spiral type which tends to use more friction rather then cutting into the metal to work.  Spiral type tends to cause the sparkplug ring of metal to expand and bind.

 

I've had the best luck with a fluted type extractor such as this

A 14mm thread size is nominally 9/16" give or take so probably 7/16" would be the optimum size for the extractor.  1/2" would probably leave you a little short on wall thickness and make drilling a heart stopping operation.

[mora]

Originally posted by wrag
Do not use compressed air to remove the chips of ceramic material!  Use a vaccum to remove any chips of ceramic particals.

Why? I'm sure the vacuum is a good solution, but I would definately blow it afterwards to be sure.

[KgB]

Originally posted by Morpheus
SO let say that drillings fall on top of the valve. Where do they go when the valve opens up?

LOL service center doing brakes didnt teach you much did it.

What is wrong with you Morph?
Who cares about "drilling's",at this point the "drilling's" is last thing he has to worry about.
I was talking about EGR stud re taping because you can repair it(re tap,re thread),
you can replace the stud with next size up for crying out loud.
If he "hacks" the spark plug thread what is he gonna do,healer coil it?
Stop arguing with me,you embarrassing yourself.
Oh yeah,I'm ASE,BMW certified master technician,and who the hell are you?

[KgB]

Originally posted by Morpheus
SO let say that drillings fall on top of the valve. Where do they go when the valve opens up?

LOL service center doing brakes didnt teach you much did it.

Like i said,you need to stop Morph:D

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
I am not a car mechanic, but wouldnt the other stuff get blowed out the exhaust?

[Morpheus]

Who cares about "drilling's",at this point the "drilling's" is last thing he has to worry about.I was talking about EGR stud re taping because you can repair it(re tap,re thread),
you can replace the stud with next size up for crying out loud.

Hmmm, when and where did I mention stud? I was talking about the passage that goes from one side of the head into the other, the chamber. Which is found on for small block heads along with many other heads out there... which then gos into the intake. No stud there genious. Stop trolling, ignorant trolls are the worst. They just make you look stupider than you already are.

 

Oh yeah,I'm ASE,BMW certified master technician,and who the hell are you?

You sound alot like MrBlack, you going to show us picturs of your crib next? Or I know, fake copies of a tech school diploma. ROFL.

For being ASE certified they sure dont teach you much these days I guess. Studded EGR passages?

[Widewing]

Originally posted by crowMAW
If you use anti-seize, you need to increase the torque a couple a pounds.  I once ruined a aluminum head by using anti-seize and only torqueing to normal specs...the plugs backed out enough to oval out the plug holes, which eventually shot one of the plugs out of the head like a missile.  Ended up having to helicoil all 4 plug holes.

That's why I suggest a retorque after the first thermal cycle, as you will find the plugs will no longer be at factory spec. They should stabilize after that.

By the way, there are some new graphite based sprays that are excellent for prepping spark plugs threads. However, I still recommend retorqueing after applying any type of anti-seize or thread prep.

As a side note, I've seen mechanics vacuum out spark plug ceramic using a shop vac with a jury-rigged tube adapter. They would rotate the crankshaft manually until an exhaust valve was partially open. Personally, if I had a spark plug come apart, I'd yank the head. I'd chase the thread and check it with a go/no-go gauge. If the thread is damaged, take it to a good engine shop and have them drill it out and install a Heli-coil. I've done this with my old '58 Alfa. All four threads were simply worn out from age and use and it spit out a plug one afternoon. I've also had to do the same thing to a Cosworth BDA head.

My regards,

Widewing

[Morpheus]

healer coil it

Forgot this part. Its Helicoil Mr ASE.

Freak'n hick.

[WilldCrd]

Forgot this part. Its Helicoil Mr ASE.Freak'n hick.

I think freak'n hicks everywere have now been insulted:rolleyes:

You sound alot like MrBlack, you going to show us picturs of your crib next? Or I know, fake copies of a tech school diploma. ROFL.

dont forget pics of the obligatory .50cal
and sniper certifications

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by WilldCrd
I think freak'n hicks everywere have now been insulted:rolleyes:

 

dont forget pics of the obligatory .50cal
and sniper certifications

All true, lol.. Good points right there. Substitute Hick for moron and we're good to go.

[kevykev56]

Originally posted by Morpheus
All true, lol.. Good points right there. Substitute Hick for moron and we're good to go.

I have know KgB for quite some time. A very nice and helpful person who doesnt deserve to be bashed by anyone. I can vouch and tell you he is no Mr. Black, the farthest thing from fact.

As a certified mechanic he is giving sound advise. The best thing to do is to remove the head pull the plug, check the threads and do what is required.

You call him a hick/moron and your wanting wrag to risk doing further damage to his engine. Suppose he does what you say, leaves some ceramic/metal inside the cylinder and then runs the engine damages the valves or causes other problems.

Yes you could take it to buba or any other shade tree and maybe pull the plug. I myself as a shadetree/hick would give the ez-out a go. If I did drop anything or even had a doubt that something was lost inside, the head would be pulled. I would also worry about damaging exposed threads(If there are any) with the tool.

KgB's advise is far from moronic... if you disagree that he is giving sound advise then I would say the moron in the conversation is not KGB.



Could "healer coil" be some undetected sarchasm??

[jab116]

You didn't say what cylinder your talikn about, so I'll guess it's #1, closest to the firewall & hardest to reach.
If that's the case, pull the head. It will be much easier to work on,  or, if you have to take to somewhere.
Get it done right the first time, nothing to worry about, & an engine that will last another 22 years.
Good luck.