So what came first, the hording or the suck?

[Urchin]

In the fine tradition of the chicken and the egg, a new conundrum for you AH philosophers to ponder.  

Did hording result from people being incompetent at fighting, or did people being incompetent at fighting result from hording?

[Meatwad]

people being incompetent at fighting resulted from hording

[crims]

I think it was the TV commercial .


Crims

479th Raiders FG

[Toad]

Ask yourself what the game rewards.

It rewards winning the reset.

Given the current strat, map design and field capture conditions, the Horde is the most time-effective tool to win the reward.

[Meatwad]

If I dont want to hoard, I just get into a jeep and drive to the closest enemy base or to TT and HO/chase enemy jeeps through town

[Urchin]

I don't know which came first, but it did occur to me that it stinks.

A lot of folks were complaining about the ENY system tonight (on knights).  Mostly regarding ganging between countries, that sort of thing.  I kind of regard it as a natural effect of having 3 sides... 2 are going to have to hit 1, at some point.  

But the way I remember the game when I started (circa 2001... wow), was there was little fights going on about everywhere, not 1 or 2 hordes per side steamrolling un or underdefended bases.  You can chalk it up to population density, especially on Baltic (600 people crammed in there tonight), but that doesnt ring true on the huge maps.  600 people on the huge maps works out to about the same density with 150 on the old maps.

The games rewards havent changed... but the gameplay sure has.

10x9(Baltic) , 625 sq miles per square works out to 56,250 square miles on the huge maps.  Figure 150 people on a busy night, and you get a population density of ~.003 people per sq mile.

19x19 (fester MA)*625 = 225,625 sq miles.  ~.003 people per sq mile.

Baltic

[DoKGonZo]

I agree. I think the MA mechanics were geared towards a smaller player count. And now that's gotten so big The Horde is simply the most efficient (in terms of time) way to reset a map.

Since the real strat targets (factories, etc.) have minimal impact on the MA, all bombers just pile into the fighter bases. Of course, if the strats were made meaninful, they'd just be porked like barracks and ord are now.

If the MA were changed so that lift capacity at bases were reduced, to reduce the Horde, people would whine that sometimes they have to fly an extra 2 minutes to a fight (even though they won't really find anything close to a "battle" while in a Horde).

[Urchin]

Well, it is more of a rhetorical question than a serious whine/complaint.  

I actually support people doing whatever they want to do in the game.  If they want to steamroll undefended bases, more power to them.  I'm actually only interested in a very narrow spectrum of what the game has to offer.

Personally, I'd be much happier if the game "turned back the clock" so to speak, so that the focus was again on air combat.  But I can accept that the majority of the player base now doesn't want that- so I don't think it is good to try to force a different style of play on them.

[Lazerr]

Man, the gameplay these days sure does suck.

[kamilyun]

I really don't think people play for the 20/20/20 perk points for the reset.

1/2 the time they play just to reset the map...just to get something different on.

Horde?  Yeah, they exist.  I don't know why anyone follows them.  You can't even get any kills in a horde.  Even the most timid player must like to get a kill, right?

As far as "the suck"...I enjoy upping to counter the horde.  I think it only sucks to be on the "hording" side.  So if you're being "horded" you must be in a target rich environment, right?

Too drunk to figure this one out...

[crims]

If the MA were changed so that lift capacity at bases were reduced, to reduce the Horde, people would whine that sometimes they have to fly an extra 2 minutes to a fight (even though they won't really find anything close to a "battle" while in a Horde).


Sounds Like AW   "Zone full"



Crims

479th Raiders FG

[lazs2]

yep... it seems acceptable these days to join the chess piece with the largest numbers and then hit the smallest numbered piece with the largest amount of vultchers.

There is no rule against it but.... I gotta wonder...

How is it fun for the the vultures?   I know when I get to a field and there are only a few or no planes and I have to circle around buzzing the field hopeing to steal a kill from the rest of the horde.... it is boreing.

Do they do it because of a personality defect or because they think the "win" is that important or a combo of both?

In any case... they do it cause they can and... they do it cause the fields are too far apart...  The timid have more time to "organize"  and hit the only areas on most maps where there are a few (very few) close fields

On a map with say, allmost all fields 3/4 of a sector apart... the fights would be more evenly divided around the map as urchin and the rest of us remember them to have been.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[FALCONWING]

2 cents...

1st cent....when there are equal large darbars in an area it is not a horde..it is a good fight.  what "creates" a horde is that by mission or luck a lot of one countries pilots take off at same time and arrive at enemy base without much opposition.  i find that it is hard to get a bunch of guys to lift off in enuf time to get alt before a horde arrives...this is just the way it is...the difference is that here are 3 times as many people on a night so a horde is 30 guys insteadof 10...i could get a few squaddies an dhave fun handling ten...i cant 30....

2nd cent....AW had a system where whn a certain number of a countries pilots were in the air..no more could lift off til the others died.  while at first blush this seems good..it sucked.  yiur buddy asks for helpand you cant get up...you log on and your boys at one base and you cvant get up to play with them....NO to zone limits.


again i ask for lots of close uncapturable fields..with a feweer number of capturable...whoever owns the most fields after 3 days "wins" and the map moves on to the next.

[wetrat]

First came the suck. Then, due to the suck, came the horde. Now, the horde makes it impossible for new people to stop sucking, and since they suck, they horde. Vicious cycle.

~rat

[Atoon]

first came the TV ads, and other advertising campaigns, then came the masses who faced the enormous learning curve due to seasoned Vets. This created the Suck. The Suck(ers) bieng mostly of the new generation " I haven't had to work for anything in my life, why would I start now?" followed the path of lest resistance and created the potatod(intentionlly mispelled).

It occurs to me that the potatod is likely not motivated by gaining perks, but by finally having a way to kill the vets.