Author Topic: Middle East Conflict (Read 2064 times)

J_A_B · « **Reply #45 on:** October 18, 2000, 10:02:00 AM »

I wish the Jews and the Arabs would shut up and come to some kind of ageement---then actually follow it (none of this "promise then do the opposite" that both sides have a habit of doing).

After all that has taken place, there is no "good" and "bad" side. BOTH have a LOT of blood on their hands. Both the Jews and Arabs have committed countless atrocities on each other. Both have deliberately incited violence at times. Both do nothing but blame the other. And, as history proves again and again, blaming does little more than cause more violence.

Neither side is innocent.

In the current conflict, the Arabs have no business butchering Jews and rioting. That does them no good on the international scene, and only hurts the peace they so desperately require. On the other hand, why do the Jews show disdain for Arab life by firing live bullets into the mobs; standard anti-riot gear (rubber bullets, water cannons, etc) would be just as effective at dissapating the crowds.

BOTH sides seem...ahem...stupid. I know it can't be true, but both the Arabs and the Jews act like they WANT to keep fighting. Any small thing, no matter how unimportant, is enough of an excuse for someone to start fighting. Like the Arabs rioting because someone visited a holy site. Or, like the Jews shooting people for throwing rocks. Those are but the weakest excuses for fighting.

If they would only get over their silly revenge policies and live up to an agreement, things might be okay. Unfortunately, that would require them to occasionally forgo revenge, which seems beyond their current temprament. Peace can't last until both sides are willing to work for it and stop the revenge.

Unfortunately, both sides act like they will fight until the other is completely wiped out. Neither side seems overly interested in co-existence; they only pay occasional lip service to it.

As long as the Arabs and Jews over-react and treat the other side like animals, there will be no peace.

Given history as an example, I don't expect peace for a long time.

J_A_B

Igloo · « **Reply #46 on:** October 18, 2000, 11:42:00 AM »

Naso, Pompeii? Bah.

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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York

"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]

Dowding · « **Reply #47 on:** October 18, 2000, 01:52:00 PM »

What a weird debate!

Naso - my point was not the oldness of things generally, but crap disposal systems specifically

.

Besides, in Scotland there is a settlement that is 10,000 years old or something, and it has an indoor toilet and underground sewage system.

I've been to Pompei, BTW.

Naso · « **Reply #48 on:** October 19, 2000, 01:31:00 AM »

Dowding said:

Naso - my point was not the oldness of things generally, but crap disposal systems specifically.

I understud, but i was pointing that in Pompei there is a crap disposal system and sours, and water in each house, just like today, except electricity

.

Amazing engineers.

This engineering was lost in middle age, to be discovered again in late 1700, early 1800.

Since i am very interested in archeology and antropology, can you send me some info on this settlement in scotland?

Must be from early presence in Scotland of Humans.

Good target for some holiday trip.

Igloo · « **Reply #49 on:** October 19, 2000, 12:47:00 PM »

Skara Brae?

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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York

"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]

janneh · « **Reply #50 on:** October 24, 2000, 12:53:00 AM »

IMHO, there is a "innocent" side in this war and it's Lebanon. Innocent in quotation marks as in near history it's government gave permission to palestinians to strike against Israel from Lebanon's ground.20 years this war has been taken place in Lebanon. Then hezbollah formed to push occupier off the country and if I recall it right, they've swear that war continues as long as there is one jew alive, which makes real peace process difficult. I mean if palestinians and israel end up in some kind of agreement (as we all hope), how about hezbollah, which is quite popular in south-lebanon and now also a member of lebanese government (electoral alliance with amal).

When we're talking about USA's aid to israel,we also must remember, that russians are aiding hezbollah / amal via syria (and iran ?), katjusha rockets and other armament.

StSanta wrote:

"One must also ask oneself what the hell all those kids are doing throwing rocks and beign part of a mob? I you can't stand the heat, get outta the kitchen - actions HAVE consequences and risks, in this case deadly."

I agree. For the very first day after israeli withdrawal, palestinians has thrown rocks in blue line, every day.Many israeli soldiers has injured. What country can stand that kind of "peace process" long ?

One thing that hold israel for attacking against palestinians with all forces is the fact that israel is civilized state and part of united nations.

Just my few opinions. I don't want to talk about palestinians justifications of israels ground as I don't know that much history.
My intention is not to insult any part of this conflict, if I have, I apologize.

StSanta · « **Reply #51 on:** October 24, 2000, 05:52:00 AM »

I think I recall a documentary reagarding Lebanon's state as being much of a Syrian puppet.

No love lost between the Syrians and Israelis, right?

Sad to see that both parts of the conflict are being unreasonable <sigh>

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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

Eagler · « **Reply #52 on:** October 24, 2000, 06:47:00 AM »

Anyone else notice the recent slant the media is portraying? Seems they are making Palestine the innocent victim and Israeli the big bad guy. CNN is one of them. Doesn't look good over there for some time to come. The recent Arab meeting didn't do much to help the matter. One big mess which could affect the world's oil supply. Tell me again the argument for drilling for our own oil? Oh yeah, the environment ... What happens to the "environment" when dozens (hundreds?)of oil rigs are set ablaze .. i.e. Desert Storm? They could strangle our military by cutting off their oil better than we were able to do to Germany through all our bombing during WW2.

Eagler

Dowding · « **Reply #53 on:** October 24, 2000, 01:10:00 PM »

I haven't noticed that - I've seen reports devoted to the atrocities committed by both sides, like the torture and murder of that Palestinian by the Israeli settlers or the torture and murder of the Israeli soldiers by the Palestinians.

Remember that the current crisis occurred because of the visit of that member of Lekud to that Mosque in Jerusalem. A ridiculous thing to considering the political climate at this time.

Igloo - Skara Brae? I think that is the name of the Scottish settlement.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 10-24-2000).]

janneh · « **Reply #54 on:** October 27, 2000, 02:03:00 PM »

I've noticed that too, Eagler. I was surprised, when UN judged israel actions against palestinians.Naturally israel has superior army against palestinians but IMO it would be foolishness to not use it when your country is threatened, that's why every country has defence forces, right ? Here in Finland, discussions has been arised about finnish vote for israeli judgement.That wasn't our government official opinion as it was only a finnish New York United Nations section's opinion ! Strange, how some little organisation of finnish can make that big statements without finnish parliament knowing it, oh boy ! There's lots of work, i think

If we think israeli perspective this, it surely won't feel very happy about that arab meeting's resolution. Just think ; little israel country against rich, huge (hostile) arab and muslim countries around it, that's quite "defenceless" situation and if israel allows these attacks without any counteractions, that would make it ridiculous for surrounding countries.

But, on another hand, Dowding is right, this all begun again after that member of lekud visited that mosque. For me, these religious wars are distant thought, I can't understand them at all.
Palestinians has right to have their own country, but I doubt israels tends to give piece of their small land...

These wars has been in mideast for many many years, i remember i read some of it from bible!From generation to generation, it continues and only God knows when it ends. But now, if never, there is possibility to peace, let's all hope that they end up it !

........

Oh, after reading all that i wrote, i still can't figure it out, what i ment !

Damn, janneh down and out !

janneh · « **Reply #55 on:** October 27, 2000, 02:14:00 PM »

Oops, one thing came in my mind;
I recall a rumour, where every kid that throw rocks against israel and dies, gains 800$ to his/her family from someone...?
Is this rumour right or wrong ? Uh..!

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #56 on:** October 27, 2000, 11:01:00 PM »

I read this post and I can't help but think back to a Rodney Dangerfield movie called "Back to School". Sam Kinison was the History Prof asking a question about one of the more simple events to decifer that century... Vietnam. Its how I will always remember him.

The comanility.. alot of canned answers. If it were this easy.. it would already be figured out.

AKDejaVu