Does he have the Cajones... Will he do it?

[Jackal1]

Must haaaave Waaaaaaaaa lllllll yyyyyyyyyy Wooooorrrrrrrllllllllllllllld dddddddd!

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Seems there's a precedent for the president to cap gas prices... and limit big oil's profits.

What, and interfere with the natural processes of c-c-capitalism?

And yes folks, here it is - another gas price whine thread originating in - yes, you guessed it - the good ole USA! What would Bill Gates say? Probably "Where do YOU want to go today, in your societally correct vehicle?"


Sixpence gets it perfectly -

Let the prices go up, then demand for alternative fuel sources will be higher than it is now. Alternative energy sources have made leaps and bounds the last ten years. Let the demand rise for alternative energy so entrepreneurs will work even harder to supply that demand. Let capitalism take it's course.

People complain about socialism, then complain that they are being gouged at the pump or at an event ticket office. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. As long as people are buying the big SUV and filling it, the price won't go down."

Spot on, sir. I hope Lazs reads that second para.

Yeager too -

the US has been a gas pig for 40 years. Guess what, other countries are expanding economically and are needing that gas that we consume for pleasure. So the gas companies are going to jack us up to ween us off our pleasure gas.

Quite correct Are you the same person as Yeager2?



Gentlemen, oil has had its day. Deal with it.

[storch]

Originally posted by Mr Big
If Bush followed FDR's policies to the letter, he'd be called "Hitler" by the left.

imagine what would happen if he placed all arabs in concentration camps.

[Nashwan]

If prices are capped in America at less than the international market price, where will America get enough oil from?

Current imports are over 13 million barrels a day. If you cap prices so that the American consumer is paying about $60 a barrel, and actual world prices are $75 a barrel, then someone has to pay the difference. The foreigners won't sell you their oil for $60 a barrel when they can get $75 elsewhere.

That leaves the oil companies. Subsidising oil imports at $15 a barrel will cost over $70 billion a year. Think they'll do that? Think they'll continue to import oil for you when they are losing money on it, and bankrupt themselves in the process?

The effect of price controls would be oil shortages, because the US would no longer be able to import oil. That would drive the international price down, of course, because it would mean a huge cut in demand. But it would also mean Americans being able to buy about half as much gasoline as they can now.

[Gunslinger]

Yup I agree with six here.  The higher the prices get the more demand there is for alternative fuels and public transit.  Previously alternative fuels be it bio-diesel or E85 Wasn't at all profitable because oil was so much cheaper.  

Now I remember reading in a previous thread that there isn't enough space in the world to grow enough corn to make a dent in our oil dependence.....is this correct?  Even so, I know and have seen first hand where we dump barges full of corn into rivers and the oceans just because there's nothing else to do with it.  At least the initial research is a start.

I do not think gas caps are a good Idea.  All that would do is decrease supplys of gasoline.

[lazs2]

I have no problem with gas prices rising.  I think that it is the only way that we will make progress.  

If you voted democrat then you voted to not explore and develop oil sources in Alaska.  If you voted for democrats you voted to not develop coal or to drill offshore.  

Prices will stabalize because less easily recovered oil will become economicaly viable.   Alternative fuels and power sources will drop the demand.

I am not for price fixing except in the case of a monopoly and... I am not for monopolies.   I am not for government programs of any kind.

lazs

[CavemanJ]

hmmm....

How many quarters in a row have the oil companies posted record profits?

And my concern isn't about "pleasure gas".  I drive for a living.

[Ripsnort]

There are many reasons why a barrel of oil is high, from stock speculation to saber rattling in the ME, to Venezua threat to seasonal spring refinery shut down for maintenance to lack of ENOUGH refineries, to increase in demand from China (and the U.S.).  But you know, the unintelligent americans whom are living in one of the best economies we've known in history, will somehow blame Bush for high oil prices because of his past business dealings in oil before he was president.

[lasersailor184]

The number of people here who know nothing of basic economics is staggering.

I am not for price fixing except in the case of a monopoly and... I am not for monopolies.

Even monopolies are subject the laws of economics.  They CAN NOT charge whatever they want without consequence to their own profits.

[beet1e]

Yes, but Laser  - we were talking the language of Lazsmatics™ and Lazsonomics™, in which anything is possible if the result is cheap gas!

[Urchin]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
The number of people here who know nothing of basic economics is staggering.




Even monopolies are subject the laws of economics.  They CAN NOT charge whatever they want without consequence to their own profits.

Yea, it really is pretty amazing how little people know about economics.  

The premises of microeconomics are ludicrous to begin with, but some parts of it make a certain amount of sense.  

You ever hear of a little thing called elasticity of demand, professor?  Gasoline is one of those goods that would have a low elasticity.  So basically (and I'm keeping it simple for everyone else, not for you, Doc), the price of gas could go up to $15 a gallon and people would still buy it.  Why?  Because they have to.

[Hangtime]

Being completely indifferent to political sides when faced with an issue that affects my wallet and stomach makes it easy to choose a solution without angst over 'which party will suffer'.

Here's how I see it...

1. We're in competition with a world market for oil.. yet we have undeveloped oil sources that can be tapped, more than enough to supply north american (and only north american) demands right here. We can't 'go get it' because the 'greenies' got exploration banned. The bans must be lifted. There's enough American crude for the American, Canadian and Mexican market if we go get it and outlaw exporting North American crude or North American refined product.

2. Refining capacity is down. While we can still refine enough for domestic needs.. a fair portion of the oil we refine is exported. Stop refined oil exports. Not a drop of US refined oil should be exported till we are NOT dependant on OPEC oil. Next, start a development program for new refineries and methods.. BUILD again.

3. Short Term.. Toss in the towel on the middle east's oil. If we have to 'go abroad' to secure oil, lets make it Canada and Mexico. Both countries are linked to us economicaly and physically. Who in America, Mexico or Canada would give a rats bellybutton about OPEC 'demands' when they cannot 'turn off our tap'?

4. Alternative Energy... sure. Time to stop dragging feet. More efficient use of fuels.. we can build a better SUV and truck engines. We're not incompetent or helpless.. time to do some 'american ingenuity' stuff again.

As I see it, without a wall of text; our gas prices were lower than most other places in the world because we were the worlds largest crude oil customer and refined products exporter. Now we've got another oil hungry oil consuming economy competeing for the refined product and the crude... China. We need to change how we do business with regards to crude and refined products... and we need to STOP doing business with the OPEC theives...  Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.

Lastly.. the oil companies themselves. Time to whack 'em with an export tax. If oil products leave this country they do so with a huge tarrif attached. High enough that they will make more money putting the product in front of american consumers than they would if it goes to china.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Hangtime
4. Alternative Energy... sure. Time to stop dragging feet. More efficient use of fuels.. we can build a better SUV and truck engines. We're not incompetent or helpless.. time to do some 'american ingenuity' stuff again.

Now with oil being consistantly above $60/bbl, probably now over $70, the Alberta Oil sands, (something like 2 Saudi Arabias) Western US oil shale, (something like 4 Saudi Arabias) Coal F-T conversion to oil (US has several Saudi Arabias in that resource too), all become profitable.

A few years to ramp up production and the energy market could  stabilize.

[Urchin]

I'd be for that... but it seems like an awfully socialist plan.  

I'd expect most red blooded americans to be in this thread with pitchforks and torches.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Now with oil being consistantly above $60/bbl, probably now over $70, the Alberta Oil sands, (something like 2 Saudi Arabias) Western US oil shale, (something like 4 Saudi Arabias) Coal F-T conversion to oil (US has several Saudi Arabias in that resource too), all become profitable.

A few years to ramp up production and the energy market could  stabilize.

^^^

Finally.. it's becoming 'economicialy viable' to stop the utter insanity of paying our adversaries for the pleasure of raping us.