RAF development V LW development

[gripen]

Hm... They were trying to improve altitude performance of the Fw 190 since 1942, several engines and various systems were tested but the only thing to reach service was the Ta 152H which saw very limited use 1945.

gripen

[Charge]

"I often read on here about the Spit such and such being introduced with a different engine to counter the 109 such and such."

Heh, isn't it is clear that after the intruduction of Spit IX there was no actual need to counter anything. They prolly developed Griffons just to have something to do for the rest of the wartime.

-C+

[Bruno]

Originally posted by Angus
If there was no problem with high alt stellar performers (Maybe better to quote engines rather than aircraft types) why bother about improving the 190's alt performance?

What are you talking about? I said the development of the D-9 began with the attempt to improve high altitude performance of the 190 series. Ultimately, ending up with the Ta-152H as pointed out above.

This had little to do with the Spit XIV or Tempest development, again as I said above.

[Angus]

Yes, because their altitude performance wasn't good enough.

[Hawco]

Does anyone have an idea of how long the drawing board  to protoype process was ? I'm trying to get a handle on how they were able to churn out various models and sub models.
I'm sure that Factories were busy making parts for model A and then suddenly told to change thier prcoess to make parts for model B.
I assume it was more difficult for the Germans as they were under constant bombardment from the air and also had to contend with other difficulties such as supply etc ?

[Debonair]

iirc, the original Mustang was put together abnormally fast, about 120 days.

[Angus]

Wasn't the He 162 quite quickly done as well?

[Bruno]

Yes, because their altitude performance wasn't good enough.

Yes, what..?

Just typing to type again..?

The quest for better high performance on the part of the 190 series had little to due with the Spitfire or Tempest. In fact the direct opposite was the case with the Spitfire in that variants were pushed into production to specifically deal with the Fw 190As superiority at altitudes at lower altitude bands.

Where the altitude performance of the Fw 190A, and ultimately the D was in adequate, was in dealing with Ami high altitude long range escorts. This ultimately lead to the Ta-152H. The Dora development had nothing to do with D-day, Norway, N. Afrika, Spitfire XIVs or Tempest or anything else you have bothered to type out.

irc, the original Mustang was put together abnormally fast, about 120 days.

Airframes typically aren't what is time consuming. It's developing the power plant / egg. While 120 days is impressive, it's certainly no miracle.

[Angus]

Ah, yes:
"Where the altitude performance of the Fw 190A, and ultimately the D was in adequate, was in dealing with Ami high altitude long range escorts"

Notably the Merlin powered P51 perhaps? Or the P&W? Or the Allisons?

Like I said:

"Maybe better to quote engines rather than aircraft types"

[Bruno]

Maybe better to quote engines rather than aircraft types

It maybe better for you as you go through the thread stumbling around trying to find a point. However, my reply was in response to Dan stating:

On the flip side the Spit XIV and Tempest got into the game before the 190 D9 which was in essence the counterpart to those fighters along with the P51.

Neither the Spitfire XIV or Tempest utilized P & Ws or Merlin's. The D-9 development was not due to the development either of those aircraft. Whatever other nonsense you try to 'slip' into the discussion has nothing to do with my point.

You always resort to this, post crap completely irrelevant to the line of discussion, and when that doesn't stick you build some strawman in attempt to avoid replying to exactly what was written.

First it was D-day and N. Afrika, now it's 'well Spitfires had Merlin's and Merlin's were in P-51s:

Eureka! I have may something...

I can hardly wait to see what's next...

[Angus]

This is next since you can't grasp it.
The development of the 109D and Ta series has it roots in many of their allied counterparts having better engine performans than the 190A series at high altitude.

[Bruno]

The development of the 109D and Ta series has it roots in many of their allied counterparts having better engine performans than the 190A series at high altitude.

And again that has F'all to do with what I originally posted, go back and re-read it.

You went from:

And yet, after D-Day...those Spitties were all over the Axis held territory.

And of course before...N-Africa, Malta, N-Fronts...

to:

Me bad. Forgot odd things like Mossies..

to:

Maybe better to quote engines rather than aircraft types

to:

Notably the Merlin powered P51 perhaps? Or the P&W? Or the Allisons?

You are all over the map trying to find something you can cling to.

Dan wrote:

On the flip side the Spit XIV and Tempest got into the game before the 190 D9 which was in essence the counterpart to those fighters along with the P51.

and I replied:

The 190D-9 development had little to do with the Spit XIV or Tempest. It was developed in an attempt give the FW series better performance at altitude. D-9s were most often used to escort the bomber killers. They were to deal with the P-51s. As it turned out the D-9s FTH wasn't much better then the A series. Ultimately, the need for a high alt fighter lead to the Ta-152H series. Like the 109s and the D-9s, the Ta-152 was meant to combat escort fighters giving the bomber killers space to attack bombers.

Nothing you posted in this thread deals directly with, or contradicts, my point.

[Angus]

Not really.
So stop growling.

[cav58d]

the BB has a new TOOL

[Hap]

Interesting question.  Good answers.  By in large I enjoyed reading y'alls responses.

Why are some fussy?

hap