Author Topic: Why wasn't the UN involved in the decision to attack Afghanistan? (Read 3599 times)

Dowding · « **Reply #90 on:** October 23, 2001, 02:22:00 PM »

I'm sorry Boroda, but how to you tie-up this 'US war on Europe' with the fact that it was British troops who were the first into Kosovo? Or how it was British aircraft providing CAP in the skies above?

Or are you saying Britain is actually at war with itself?

While the US may not have intervened for the best of reasons in the past, and self-interest will be paramount for any country, if good comes out of it I don't have too many qualms about it.

Quote

Do you really think they were worried by "human rights violations" in Yugoslavia?

[/b]

I think NATO intervened because of the tradgedy in the previous civil war. Our country's populations would not allow our leaders to stand by again. It would be an electoral black mark.

The politicians did it for self-interest (on the whole), but the underlying motivation carried through to yield a positive conclusion. Democracy at work, comrade, democracy at work.

Hangtime · « **Reply #91 on:** October 23, 2001, 02:24:00 PM »

Quote

I am really sorry that UN sanctions prevented us from sending some SAMs to Serbia in 1999. But your honorable American "allies" never pay attention to minior issues like UN decisions, and almost openly armed KLA.

Batdog, many Soviet servicemen died protecting Korean people from UN forces trying to "bomb them down to stone age".

As for Soviet SAMs - ask US pilots who bombed Vietnam. My Uncle scored 4 kills as a targeting officer of an S-75 there.

I was; at one time, rather narrow minded in my view of the Soviet Man.

I find myself returning to that view after reading Boroda's commentary.

Screw you; Boroda. In infinite detail; via every orifice, with anatomical precison and extreme personal prejudice. Repeatedly.

Loser.

mrfish · « **Reply #92 on:** October 23, 2001, 02:27:00 PM »

yeah, screw you - quit picking on grunherz

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #93 on:** October 23, 2001, 02:36:00 PM »

Listen Croatians and Bosnians fighting each other is the stupidest thing we ever did. I think one of the saddest symbolic things is when we blew up the old ottoman style bridge in mostar. That was absolutly stupid.
I never said the Croatians were 100% good guys,if you wanna say that point it out where I did.

However the Croatians and Bosnians are better and more Justified than Serbs. WE DID NO GO INVADING SERBIA. The serbs sent in the JNA when we declared independance. The local Serbs in Krajina took over the whole area. BTW if you know what Croatia looks like , a kind of horizontal V shape like "<" the krajina region is right at the angle. When the local Serbs took this area over and kicked everyone else out they essentially cut the country in half. This was unnaceptable.

Now will you guys who support the UN so much plese explain what you guys let happend in Srebrenica.

Just do it explain why the UN bluehelmets just let the serbs murder 8000 unarmed men/boys as the UN watched... Why did they let the serbs load them into busses?

As for you Pongo. You say I want the UN to fight for "my side".

All I want the UN to do is what it promised to do. Protect innocent people. Why did the UN not protect the thoudsands on innocent people in the UN DECLARED SAFE AREA of Srebrenica?

PONGO dont dare to post in this thread again without adressing the UNs pitiful inaction in srebrenica, I know you just wanna avoid it and gloss it over.

Boroda.... You are proud of your family killing Americans......

And now you call me a nazi for no reason.. Go to hell.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #94 on:** October 23, 2001, 02:42:00 PM »

BTW Dowding you are right the RAF did participate in the 1995 air attacks. I and millions in Croatia and Bosnia thank your country for that.

I would like to adress another point. I think my distrust of the UN "bluehelmet" cowards is directed at the UN force. Not at the individuals. I honestly dont think the UN has enough backbone and iniative to do anything. Thats why they always have to call in a real military force for anyhing but the Un rent-a-cop warehous guard duties. Aside from that I think the "bluhelmets" are pretty impotent, though they seem to be pouplar as hostages and human shields by use of the warring parties.

Dowding · « **Reply #95 on:** October 23, 2001, 02:42:00 PM »

Reposted, Grunherz, since you haven't answered my other points:

You repeatedly call my countrymen cowards for carrying out their national duties. Well, that's roadkill. But I 'll let that pass because I can almost taste the irony.

I'd rather have a few 'cowards' in Great Britain, than the 'tigers' your country produced (see above).

I ask you this - which catergory would you prefer to count as countrymen?

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]

Hangtime · « **Reply #96 on:** October 23, 2001, 02:45:00 PM »

Dowding, he answered you.

Dowding · « **Reply #97 on:** October 23, 2001, 03:11:00 PM »

Really?

It seems to me he first acknowledged that the Croats weren't '100% good'. Then he yet again effectively blamed the actions of some of his countrymen (documented) on people who absolutely were in the worst position in the world, following orders impossible to carry out. They were there in an effort to help.

An interesting account of the Dutch infantry stationed at the town:

"The Serbs, alert to every nuance in Zagreb, knew what was about to happen too. They applied pressure. On 1 June, they demanded that the Dutch pull back from an outlying observation post commanding a strategic road. The Dutch refused. Two days later, the Serbs attacked and the Dutch retreated. The pattern had been set. By early June, the morale of DutchBat inside Srebrenica was abysmal. The leader of DutchBat, Lt-Col Ton Karremans, was close to nervous collapse; his troops were uneasy, bored, sick of the Muslim gangsters who ruled much of the town under the sight of the Serb guns. Far from being on the side of the underdog Muslims they were there to protect, many in DutchBat appeared to become victims of 'Stockholm syndrome', where the kidnapped come to sympathize, then empathize, with the kidnappers.

As June gave way to early July, the Serbs nibbled at more of the enclave, never launching a full attack, never killing any Dutch, never triggering Nato's tripwire. The only Dutch soldier to die was not killed by a Serb. As the Dutch retreated from the Serbs on 7 July, they passed through a Bosnian army roadblock. The Muslim militia, enraged that the Dutch were giving up their land without a fight, lobbed a grenade, killing Private Raviv Van Renssen, a Dutch trooper. From then on, the Muslims were the more dangerous enemy for the Dutch. When the Serbs next closed in on a Dutch observation post, the UN troops chose to surrender to them."

BTW, when Srebenica was set-up as a safe-haven one of the requirements was 35,000 troops.

It got 7,000 Dutch, French and British.

At the end there were 3,500 Dutch troops. What happened was a disgrace to the Dutch Army, but how could they succeed in those circumstances?

At the start of this thread, grunherz, you were adamantly that the UN troops were cowards. Forgive me if I'm in error, but your position has changed significantly.

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]

Pongo · « **Reply #98 on:** October 23, 2001, 06:23:00 PM »

GH
Your part of the problem bud.
I could just picture you carring an AK and tossing grenades into a UN line house with your drunk Croat tiger buddies.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #99 on:** October 23, 2001, 07:22:00 PM »

Yea Pongo. Thats right.

Anyway Dowding your post proves my point exactly.

You cant trust the UN to do what it says.
They blast around SAFE AREA this and SAFE AREA that, drawing in thousands of refugees and then letting them get slaughtered.

I dont trust them, sorry.

BTW Dowding did I not make it perfectly clear that the Croatians and Bosnians werent perfect little happy angels during war? perhaps you missed that.

PS Pongo I see that you take this discussion as a game and an oppritunity to make fun of me for your own personal reasons, but please understand the war is very real to me. I lost family, my mother was nearly decapitated by a mortar that landed in the yard also destroying a bench swing that my father built by hand, my childhood home was more or less destryed, my childhood town near Vukovar was pretty much blown up and my whole life was disruped because of even If I was in the USA since just before the war.

Also for future reference in your insult posts, take careful note of this:

GRUNHERZ does not hate Serbs and Muslims. Many of my close relatives and neighbors are/were serbs. Many of my friends and my best friend was Muslim.

GRUNHERZ hates the war and wishes it never happened because of reasons stated above.

GRUNHERZ obviously stated that Croatins werent all innocent non war-crime commiting people.

GRUNHERZ thinks all Croatians indicted on war charges should be turned over to the Hague. Our nation must move forward and stop protecting these criminals due to political influence.

OK! Many of my messages in this thread are very angry, but Im passionate in my distrust of the weak UN forces and think they should play a minimal role in the actual US war. Maybe after the war the UN can come in and rent-a-cop afghan aid food warehouses.

Bluedog · « **Reply #100 on:** October 23, 2001, 07:55:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusher:

One point I might make. Wasn't it agreed on at the time that the Aussies were in the best position to take on the duty at hand due to their location and the problem they may or may not had with refugees?

I know no US troops were involved, but I also know we spent a ton of money bailing Indonesia out of their economic problems. That bail out was used as a diplomatic club to beat them over their heads and help bring an end to the conflict.

Yep, our proximity to the area in question no doubt was one of the main reasons Australian forces 'led' the operation.
I in no way intended to belittle the efforts of the US military, merely to give an example of a UN operation, and a quite successful one,where all the 'dirty work' was NOT done by US ground forces.
I have no doubt whatsoever that the US assisted at least financially, and actually my statement about 'no more than a handfull of US servicemen' may be a bit off the mark, I think the USAF was involved in the airlifting of medical supplies/food/building materials into the country in a fairly big way, Im not certain on that....but all those Hercs and Galaxies had to come from somewhere.
As far as that goes, I think I recall that when the Indos were looking like getting a little bit *too* aggressive, a US fleet with accompaniing Marines just *happened* to decide to hold excersises with the RAN off North Queensland......nothin' like havin' a badarse mate in your corner flexing the old muscles to keep potential foes at bay

http://www.defence.gov.au/army/asnce/index.htm

if your interested in finding out more.
<S> Blue

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Bluedog ]

Pongo · « **Reply #101 on:** October 23, 2001, 08:29:00 PM »

Pongo
Has been a UN peace keeper and thinks your a piece of toejam that is part of the problem. Honestly dont care what your cousin did to your mother. The whole place was a hell hole and now its a bit better. The UN peace keepers that were killed by your country men trying to protect and feed people like your mother that were being killed by people like you and your cousin are grateful for you thanks.
Preach hate brother GH.
Sit in your new country, call the men from arround the world that tried to help while your ran cowards.

You think that conflict wasnt real for the Peace Keepers and NATO troops involved. In a million of your pathetic lives you wouldnt be able to pay the debt back that you and your country owe the world for trying to help.

fd ski · « **Reply #102 on:** October 23, 2001, 09:06:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Boroda:

I hate communism because it ruined my old country (Jugoslavija) and made my people lazy, dishonest and fearful. Communism is the greatest lie and greatest evil of all time. It has destroyed, both literally and figurativly more lives in the past century than anything else.

I want all people who who support any form of communism, and that includes their studmuffingot leftist socialist pinko anti-capitalist lackeys to eat toejam and die.
No more of your lies!

Dont even go mentioning propaganda to me!

Let me understand the logic here....

Under communism, number of ethnics group lived in relative coexistance, where even you could have friends and neibours who were from differenct background....
Freedom came, and everyone overethere is trying to kill one another for their own god or because of other guy's god, and this is a fault of communism ?

Being from communist country, having seen what you've seen ( and mind you, by communist standards you boys had it easy ), you seem to display the usual "past complex". All wrongdoings and faults are there because of the communism. People are lazy ? Communism!! People are ignorant ? Communism!! People are violent towards others ? Communism !! 10 years after the "fall of communism" things haven't improved one bit, who's fault it is ? Communism !!

Get real. Poles, Russians, Chroats, Romenians, Bulgars and all the other ex-commie nations found out on last 10 years that we've earned the toejamhole that we live in.
Out freely elected goverments proved that communists were amatur thiefs by comparison.
People are as poor as they were, if not worst.

Are they no longer lazy ? Yeah.. right..

As far as i can tell, communism was prabably the best thing that could have ever happend to such a f____d up region as Balkans. People down there need a big boot on their necks to stop them from killing each other.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #103 on:** October 23, 2001, 09:34:00 PM »

Where were you a UN peace keeper Pongo?

Pongo · « **Reply #104 on:** October 23, 2001, 09:56:00 PM »

Cypress