Author Topic: Atheism and the USA, followup  (Read 9389 times)

Offline Sandman

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #435 on: May 26, 2006, 10:40:33 AM »
This entire thread boils down to the fact that no one here agrees on the definitions of the terms atheist and agnostic.

From what I've read online, this seems to be typical of most of the population and even the "experts" can't seem to find a consensus.

sand

Offline lazs2

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #436 on: May 26, 2006, 10:42:26 AM »
chair.... I don't know if there is an easter bunny or not but the people who made it up admited that they did.  Don't know if there is some bunny somewhere who messes with eggs.... pretty sure I have seen bunnies tho.  I believe that there are bunnies.

not asking you to do tricks....simply answer the question...

Do you admit that it is possible that there is a god?  It's not a trick question.

I have answered every question put to me so why is it that the "athiests" can't?

I have admited a belief in god and admitted that it is indeed a personal leap of faith.   I don't throw it into your face.

lazs

Offline Thud

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #437 on: May 26, 2006, 10:46:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
any thinking on religion is.... religion.


You would like that wouldn't you. That would make it inherently impossible for science to further discard the principles on which religion is based or for politics or judiciary systems to legislate or make policy where religion is involved.

Ridiculous statement...

Offline lazs2

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #438 on: May 26, 2006, 10:48:55 AM »
sandie... I believe that you are correct so far as it goes... I believe that there is no defenition of athiest because of the dishonesty of the cult.

the defenition should be simple.  If you are an athiest then you BELIEVE that there is no possibility of a god.   I can live with that kind of honest defenition.

What I can't live with is people calling themselves athiests and then ducking and dodgeing into and around it... sometimes being agnostic and sometimes athiest.

The question remains for the athiests on this board.

You athiests..... Do you believe that it is possible that a god exists?

Or... Do you believe that a god is impossible?   either one answered will be fine.

lazs

Offline lazs2

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #439 on: May 26, 2006, 10:53:45 AM »
How so thud?  A belief based on faith is a religion.

How do you feel about ghosts and god and aliens and.... for chair.. the easter bunny?  possible or not?

chair says that his athiesm is defined by a simple lack of belief in a god.... this is also a defenition for an agnostic is it not?   How then, under chairs defenition, would agnostic and athiest differ?

so thud.... is it possible that there is a god?

lazs

Offline Holden McGroin

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #440 on: May 26, 2006, 12:29:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Look at the word.  A-theism.  Lack of theism, theism = religious belief.  It's not complicated.


So by extension, poly-theism means multiple beliefs in God and monotheism means a single belief in God, and that is clearly not the case.

According to Webster's,

Polytheism
Noun
1. Belief in multiple Gods.

Monotheism
Noun
1. Belief in a single God.
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Offline Arlo

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #441 on: May 26, 2006, 04:04:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
Now does it bother you or does it not if religious icons are removed from tax supported properties?


Maybe I'm being way too subtle when I imply that the "issue" doesn't bother me as much as those who seem to feel it's of utmost importance. If they're not there I don't feel compelled to contribute to one being put there. If they're there I don't feel compelled to contribute to their removal.

It's a ridiculous issue. Especially when there's issues of much more importance to deal with. :aok

Offline Hangtime

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #442 on: May 26, 2006, 04:42:36 PM »
Quote
It's a ridiculous issue. Especially when there's issues of much more importance to deal with.


Now, that's a fact; requiring not a bit of faith to wrap yer brains around.
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Offline wrag

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #443 on: May 26, 2006, 07:43:59 PM »
Word games, twisting, twitching, weasling............

It just keeps going on and on.

Ain't gonna stop.

Think it's part of some peoples nature?

For EVERYONES records.  I don't care if you believe in GOD, a god, many gods or if you believe no god or gods is possible.

Don't matter to me.

After all IMHO any such relationship or lack there of is between you and ????

I do however object to some of the methods/techniques I see being used.

Why?  Because I see SOME being what appears to be IMHO dishonest with their words.

I see some doing everything they can to TWIST the words of others.  And then do all they can to weasle out of the situation they put themselves in.  Or they ignore it and hope it goes away.

Perhaps I good start is to find a deffinition that all agree upon?  Thus far no one has put forth such?

How about this?  A theist believes there IS a God (no doubts involved).  A atheist believes there IS NO God (no doubts involved).  A agnostic has doubts either way?

Religion = a system of beliefs?  A set of rules to believe by?

So taking that laz would be a theist.  NOTE he does not say he believes/agrees with any particular belief system ( this IMHO is where religion comes in ).  Further, if memory serves me correctly, he isn't sure any belief systems has an exclusive right to claim they know the way God wants things.

I guess what I'm saying here is I do not consider laz a "religious" person.  Yet I am aware laz believes there is a God.  Do I have that part correct?

Now Chairboy, along with some others, has repeatedly stated he is an atheist.  ( no doubts whatsoever there is NO god )  Do I have that part correct?

It is possible here I'm wasting my time.  Let us see.  (edited for spelling :( )
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 07:47:07 PM by wrag »
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Offline Chairboy

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #444 on: May 26, 2006, 09:17:32 PM »
No, you do not have it right, wrag.

I lack theistic belief.  I don't assert that god exists because I just don't have any context.  If the white haired guy showed up shooting lightning bolts and saying "I am god" and made a good case for it, then i guess there's a god.  But until then, I guess I don't really have an opinion.  I'm lacking religious belief.

What is so hard to understand about this?

:beating head on table:
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Offline Hangtime

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #445 on: May 26, 2006, 09:31:29 PM »
if i saw a white haired old dude with lightning flying outta his bellybutton i don't think the first thing that would come to mind would be 'ok, i stand corrected..'

probably more like 'i picked a heluva day to stop drinking'.
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Offline RTR

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #446 on: May 26, 2006, 10:10:01 PM »
I'm a dyslexic athiest.

I most assuredly do not believe in dog.

RTR
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Offline Nash

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #447 on: May 26, 2006, 10:10:38 PM »
(yeagds, I hope I posted this in the right thread this time, heh)

I gotta admit, Chairboy, that my thinking was that atheists believed that there was no god, and that agnostics just didn't know.

Yet I also believe in language, and note the exploitation and manipulation of it regularly.

Meriam Webster gives its definition of "apolitical" as such:

"having no interest or involvement in political affairs.."

And "ahistoric" as "not concerned with or related to history, historical development, or tradition."

It would seem to follow then that "Atheist" would mean not having an interest or concern with "theism" (the belief in the existence of a god or gods).

In other words, Atheism is merely a lack of theism - just like you say.

In fact, I'm not sure what word preceded by "a" constututes not only a lack of belief or interest in one thing, while at the same time being an expression of another belief....

.....except in the sole case of "atheism," for some reason, which Webster calls: " a disbelief in the existence of deity [or] the doctrine that there is no deity."

It's a weird thing.... and disconnected.

I mean, for another example, "amoral" is "being neither moral nor immoral." It's not one way or the other. It's just none of the above.

Yet they say atheism is one way.

I think MW have it wrong, and please stop banging your head against the wall, because you make perfect sense and you will only end up hurting yourself. :)

Offline lukster

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #448 on: May 26, 2006, 10:27:54 PM »
9 pages and nothing resolved. Guess we'll all just have to believe or have a lack of belief in whatever we want. In God we trust stays on the money for now and it isn't likely any politician looking to become president is going to announce his athiestic non-beliefs any time soon. I hereby offically declare the horse dead and properly beaten.

Offline Arlo

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #449 on: May 26, 2006, 10:52:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
:beating head on table:


Guessing you don't like people saying you believe there is no God. ;)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 11:03:38 PM by Arlo »