Atheism and the USA, followup

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Ya know.  Religion, or the expresison thereof, is just another opinion.  Everyone builds their way of life around opinions.  I see religion as just another unsubstantiated opinion.  You are free to have to have your own opinions.

I really do not know where society took the wrong turn.  Once we started putting labels on ideas, we became bigots.  For me, there is no difference between hating someone for thier skin color, or hating them for thier ideas.

The promotion of labeling everyone is saddening.  It simply means we are driven or compelled to insure division amongst ourselves.  This allows petty people to take control as we cannot, nor ever will, be able to find a common ground to bring us together.

It will be the undoing of mankind.

We have been tribal beings since way back in the day, labeling is just an extention of that.

We cant escape our basic human nature, people will always find something to believe in and seek out others with similar beliefs.

All these beliefes, IMO, are just reference points.. it's just too puzzling to accept that life on Earth could be a random act, a mistake, a freak accident... When the Greeks couldn't explain where lightning came from, someone decided it was the gods chucking anger, which gave them a reference point, an explanation.. which is a lot less scarier than the unknown. Labling people turns them from unknown to known.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by lazs2
Oh... and subaru.... seems the court agrees with me that athiesm is a religion..

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45874

lazs

lazs,

So, how do I "practice" my Atheism?

Just because a court rules on something doesn't make it right.
It may make it law, but it doesn't make it right.
Kind of like when a court ruling makes a decision on banning a certain firearm.
Abortion? Let's not cherry pick for our argument.
That ruling calling Atheism a religion is stupid. I feel the same on certain firearms bans.
Atheism is simply the belief that a God/Supreme Being does not exist. No divine intervention.

[SaburoS]

From your link. Yeah, I agree with the guy.

(snip)Brian Fahling, senior trial attorney for the American Family Association Center for Law & Policy, called the court's ruling "a sort of Alice in Wonderland jurisprudence."

"Up is down, and atheism, the antithesis of religion, is religion," said Fahling.

The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described "secular humanism" as a religion.

Fahling said today's ruling was "further evidence of the incoherence of Establishment Clause jurisprudence."

"It is difficult not to be somewhat jaundiced about our courts when they take clauses especially designed to protect religion from the state and turn them on their head by giving protective cover to a belief system, that, by every known definition other than the courts' is not a religion, while simultaneously declaring public expressions of true religious faith to be prohibited," Fahling said.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
That is the biggest pile of steaming B.S. I've ever seen, unless you are blind, deaf, and mute.

The atheists and the ACLU, just in recent history, have sued to have the Ten Commandments removed from any number of buildings, have sued to have the Pledge of Allegiance banned, and have sued to have a Cross removed from a war memorial cemetary. Not to mention having suing to have crosses removed from seals and emblems for cities, towns, counties, and states all across the U.S. We're not talking about suing to prevent forced religious practice, but the removal of all religious symbols and speech from all public display. God has been in government documents since the nation was founded. Suddenly, since Madelyn Murray O'Hare (however you spell it) in the sixties, after nearly 190 years of references to God being all over the government, the atheists and the ACLU have found it necessary, fashionable, and desireable to sue to have God removed from anything and everything at every opportunity. Anyone who denies that is either a fool or a liar.

In near 43 years on this planet and in this country, I have NEVER seen anyone FORCED to pray to or pay homage to any God at any time, in any court, school, or government institution. Not even here in the Bible Belt of the South. In fact, as far back as my pre school years, I've seen all sorts of exceptions and allowances made for those who choose not to acknowledge God, or any diety.

Another ayuh.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by SaburoS
So, how do I "practice" my Atheism?

Probably the same way alot of Christians practice their Christianity. Passively. And thanks to the freedom of religion we enjoy in the U.S., everyone here is free to believe what they want and practice it how they want (as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others).

Amen

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by midnight Target
1. Epperson v. Arkansas the supreme court considered an Arkansas statute that restricted the teaching of evolution.
2. Indiana, Kansas and many other States prohibit alcohol sales on Sundays.
3. Intelligent Design - nuff said.
4. Nationally funded "Abstinance only until marriage" programs.
5. In Detroit a Catholic man was criminally punished for not completing a Pentecostal drug rehabilitation program.

That took all of 5 minutes.

1. As the teaching of "the other theory" is restricted, this just promotes ignorance, not religious belief.

2. Which God do I pay homage to or pray to when I stock up on beer on Saturday?  (stupid laws but doesn't force me to believe)

3. Same as issue as #1 really, intellegent design is making its way through the courts.  

4. Which God do I pay homage to or pray to when teenagers are not having children?  (I doubt this works, but it might and is a noble effort, as the one sure way to poverty is early parenthood)

5. You may have something here.  12 step programs patterend after AA have the belief in something "greater than oneself"

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by midnight Target
1. Epperson v. Arkansas the supreme court considered an Arkansas statute that restricted the teaching of evolution.
2. Indiana, Kansas and many other States prohibit alcohol sales on Sundays.
3. Intelligent Design - nuff said.
4. Nationally funded "Abstinance only until marriage" programs.
5. In Detroit a Catholic man was criminally punished for not completing a Pentecostal drug rehabilitation program.

That took all of 5 minutes.

Lets do a quick check here:

1.  Nope no mention of religion there
2.  Again these are laws made by state legistlature that is elected by the people....again no religion mentioned
3.  Again.....don't see a hint of religion
4.  Hmmmm  telling kids not to have sex....again failing to see religion
5.  Never heard of this one.

that took all of 2 minutes.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Chairboy
Thanks for the quote, Gunslinger, good additional perspective on Adams.  I've got some other quotes from him on religion, I'll post those later, but I don't want it to look like a rebuttal.  

Same to you, Hangtime, you've also made some great points (much more eloquently than me).

Yup John Adams has some good ones.  He's not a big fan of religion but does beleive in the devine IIRC.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Arlo
Another ayuh.

Keep reading; Arlo, .. you'll find my reply.. and my friend, getting religion pounded up a kids highly impressionable backside was a fact of life when I went to school. In 1962; thanks to the ACLU, that crap was stopped.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Lets do a quick check here:

1.  Nope no mention of religion there
2.  Again these are laws made by state legistlature that is elected by the people....again no religion mentioned
3.  Again.....don't see a hint of religion
4.  Hmmmm  telling kids not to have sex....again failing to see religion
5.  Never heard of this one.

that took all of 2 minutes.

1. Direct result of Christian right wingers trying to force Creationism into the SCIENCE classroom... clearly a religious law.
2. Now why do you think they picked Sunday?... duh.
3. See #1
4. Marriage is not always a religious observance, however this particulr "class" was funded by the government and run by a Christian church AND it was presented in public school.
5. Now you've heard of it.


All of these are very recent...but like Hang says, 40 years ago it was much more pervasive.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Keep reading; Arlo, .. you'll find my reply.. and my friend, getting religion pounded up a kids highly impressionable backside was a fact of life when I went to school. In 1962; thanks to the ACLU, that crap was stopped.

At what point am I attacking the ACLU or advocating forced Christianity?

Wait ... hold on .... nope .... sorry ... false alarm. I didn't.

What I don't see sensible is the continuing crusade ... wasting time and money to erase all possible reference to Christianity on public buildings, bills and coins. Things that shouldn't present a threat to someone's atheistic preference as they would have me believe. If it is ... then their atheism is easily shaken.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by midnight Target
...
2. Now why do you think they picked Sunday?... duh.
...

80 years ago, we couldn't buy beer on any day.  This is six days of progress.

The fact that they picked Sunday does not effect my religious beliefs.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Arlo
At what point am I attacking the ACLU or advocating forced Christianity?

Wait ... hold on .... nope .... sorry ... false alarm. I didn't.

What I don't see sensible is the continuing crusade ... wasting time and money to erase all possible reference to Christianity on public buildings, bills and coins. Things that shouldn't present a threat to someone's atheistic preference as they would have me believe. If it is ... then their atheism is easily shaken.

The ACLU ain't wasting a dime of your money or your time.. and they are involved in constitutional issues.. which regardless of your consideration of worth are mighty important in curbing the re-emergence of religious influence in the public business of governemnt.

Finally, I'd not have dropped on your post is it wasn't just a rubber stamp of Virgils. The crux of his post is nothing more than indignant parroting of PC propaganda. I pointed out the facts. He's was off base, got tagged.. and so are you.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by midnight Target
1. Direct result of Christian right wingers trying to force Creationism into the SCIENCE classroom... clearly a religious law.
2. Now why do you think they picked Sunday?... duh.
3. See #1
4. Marriage is not always a religious observance, however this particulr "class" was funded by the government and run by a Christian church AND it was presented in public school.
5. Now you've heard of it.


All of these are very recent...but like Hang says, 40 years ago it was much more pervasive.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Hangtime
The ACLU ain't wasting a dime of your money or your time.. and they are involved in constitutional issues.. which regardless of your consideration of worth are mighty important in curbing the re-emergence of religious influence in the public business of governemnt.

Finally, I'd not have dropped on your post is it wasn't just a rubber stamp of Virgils. The crux of his post is nothing more than indignant parroting of PC propaganda. I pointed out the facts. He's was off base, got tagged.. and so are you.

Neh. The "threat" was neutralized. No need to panic.