Atheism and the USA, followup

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Hangtime
The ACLU ain't wasting a dime of your money or your time.. and they are involved in constitutional issues.. which regardless of your consideration of worth are mighty important in curbing the re-emergence of religious influence in the public business of governemnt.

Finally, I'd not have dropped on your post is it wasn't just a rubber stamp of Virgils. The crux of his post is nothing more than indignant parroting of PC propaganda. I pointed out the facts. He's was off base, got tagged.. and so are you.

Tagged my ass. Oh, and by the way, the ACLU is continually clogging the courts with all of the anti religion B.S. lawsuits. Since I get the crap taxed out of me to pay for the courts, and every time the ACLU sues the government, the govenment pays almost all the bills, I figure they ARE wasting MY time and MY money. And it really pisses me off.

[Hangtime]

Good!

For my part; Government funded preaching torques my rod.. nothin makes me happier than seeing the government; bible in hand; getting kicked right in the testicles for arrogantly sponsoring, endorsing and propogating a faith-based belief system... a practice that has lead to murder, rape, genocide and despotisim for over 2000 years.

I don't wanna see my tax dollars wasted 'defending' the government sponsorship of religion either. So, tell yer congressman to put down the bible and pick up the constitution.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Arlo
Probably the same way alot of Christians practice their Christianity. Passively. And thanks to the freedom of religion we enjoy in the U.S., everyone here is free to believe what they want and practice it how they want (as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others).

Amen

If they are being passive, then they aren't really practicing their religion.
Again, how do I as an Atheist, practice my Atheism?

I'll agree with you 100% if you change "religion" to "expression"
This way it includes us non-religious Atheists

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Good!

For my part; Government funded preaching torques my rod.. nothin makes me happier than seeing the government; bible in hand; getting kicked right in the testicles for arrogantly sponsoring, endorsing and propogating a faith-based belief system... a practice that has lead to murder, rape, genocide and despotisim for over 2000 years.

I don't wanna see my tax dollars wasted 'defending' the government sponsorship of religion either. So, tell yer congressman to put down the bible and pick up the constitution.

Well sir since you are so up in arms about religion how bout the whole "free exercise there of" part in the constitution.  The ACLU has gone after many of groups and it seems they are hell bent on getting any thing from santa clause to the easter bunny out of the limelight come holliday times.  Hell they have never met a boyscout troop that they didn't want to sue.

Next time you defend the ACLU for their stand up of "rights" ask yourself how many 2nd amendment issues they've defended......there's not that many.  

They are a communist socialist organization that disguises themselves in the mantra of civil liberties.....hell just look at the founder.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the constitution but to me the ACLU seems more like a trojen horse than a defender of rights.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by SaburoS
If they are being passive, then they aren't really practicing their religion.
Again, how do I as an Atheist, practice my Atheism?

Ahem... we like to travel door to door and try to talk people out of their faith.

On weekdays, we parade up and down the street with a few copies of "Godless Heathen Weekly".

Get with the program.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by SaburoS
If they are being passive, then they aren't really practicing their religion.
Again, how do I as an Atheist, practice my Atheism?

I'll agree with you 100% if you change "religion" to "expression"
This way it includes us non-religious Atheists

What? You don't want your atheism protected by law? Even so, claiming it ain't your religious belief still doesn't make it right for the government to promote it over other people's beliefs at their expense.

[SaburoS]

This is laughable. Knowing full well that it is a sensitive issue, that Texas judge shouldn't of had the statue of the Ten Commandments put in the tax funded lobby. Anyone want to put blame of costing tax payers more money, should put it where it belongs, blame the judge. That judge made it a sensitive issue by his actions.
Now if he wants to put that same statue in his private property, more power to him.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Sandman
Ahem... we like to travel door to door and try to talk people out of their faith.

On weekdays, we parade up and down the street with a few copies of "Godless Heathen Weekly".

Get with the program.

Neh ... religiously picketing the courthouses of America for threatening the fabric of American atheism by having the ten commandments displayed in stone or crossing out "In God We Trust" on currency is anything but a nonsensical religious style ritual.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by SaburoS
This is laughable. Knowing full well that it is a sensitive issue, that Texas judge shouldn't of had the statue of the Ten Commandments put in the tax funded lobby. Anyone want to put blame of costing tax payers more money, should put it where it belongs, blame the judge. That judge made it a sensitive issue by his actions.
Now if he wants to put that same statue in his private property, more power to him.

It's not nearly as laughable as the crusade against the word "God" theatening atheistic belief.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Arlo
What? You don't want your atheism protected by law? Even so, claiming it ain't your religious belief still doesn't make it right for the government to promote it over other people's beliefs at their expense.

I want my freedoms intact as best as they can.
I don't want some state sponsored religion forced upon me.
I don't want kids beinf forced via peer pressure to believe in a religion their parents don't want their kids to learn.
Thankfully the govt is trying to limit that.
The govt must remain neutral and does try to be.
Last I checked, I haven't noticed a proclaimation of there not being a God by the govt.
I havent noticed govt officials trying to change the teaching of the Bible or Creationism in Religious sponsored private schools and churches.
Our govt isn't taxing those institutions either.
As long as it isn't disruptive, nor shown as a possible state sponsorship, people can pray before taking their final or before their meal. I've NEVER seen it prevented. I actually think it is a good thing to see others practice their religious faith (as long as they aren't being disruptive).


..You were saying?

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Arlo
Neh ... religiously picketing the courthouses of America for threatening the fabric of American atheism by having the ten commandments displayed in stone or crossing out "In God We Trust" on currency is anything but a nonsensical religious style ritual.

Blaming the whole of one group is kind of well...prejudicial.
Kind of like blaming all Christians as murderers cause a fraction get convicted of killing abortion doctors.

For the record:
I actually don't care if "Under God" stays in the Pledge of Allegience.
I find the Pledge as actually not necessary.

I don't care if "In God We Trust" stays on our currency.
It actually makes sense the concept behind it.
Using currency made of paper instead of the tried and true gold or silver takes a lot of faith. What better statement of faith than a religious one? As long as we get paid the worth of that denomination, I'm cool with it.
However, if some religious zealots use those as examples of why religion and government can be together in an official fashion, then I'll change my mind.
I don't want things of religious faith being taught in federal or state tax funded institutions. That's why we have private schools and places of worship.
To borrow a line:
Don't tread on me.


As it is, I'd consider it a cultural thing (even though "Under God" was added rather late in the game).

Added:
For the record, I've yet to vote for a politician soley because of their stance on religious issues.
I've never sued anyone for any reason.
I've never picketed or protested a religious thing.
I'm pretty laid back actually with a live and let live mindset.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by SaburoS
I want my freedoms intact as best as they can.
I don't want some state sponsored religion forced upon me.
I don't want kids beinf forced via peer pressure to believe in a religion their parents don't want their kids to learn.
Thankfully the govt is trying to limit that.
The govt must remain neutral and does try to be.
Last I checked, I haven't noticed a proclaimation of there not being a God by the govt.
I havent noticed govt officials trying to change the teaching of the Bible or Creationism in Religious sponsored private schools and churches.
Our govt isn't taxing those institutions either.
As long as it isn't disruptive, nor shown as a possible state sponsorship, people can pray before taking their final or before their meal. I've NEVER seen it prevented. I actually think it is a good thing to see others practice their religious faith (as long as they aren't being disruptive).


..You were saying?

Hey. There is no state sponsored religion in this nation. There isn't even a threat of it. Just a perceived threat by you. Those stone tablets ain't gonna threaten your freedom. The "In God We Trust" on your money isn't. If they could they would have before you was born. Even the half arsed attempt to fool people into thinking "intelligent design" wasn't the same old fight against Darwinism turned out not to be a threat. Prayer in school isn't a viable issue. You don't have to feel threatened over it, either. Your kids are as likely to choose to mimic your beliefs or not in spite of the threats you perceive that aren't really there. Providing an example they respect has more to do with that.

If an old hippie Christian like me can accept you for what you are without feeling threatened, you'd think an "open minded" atheist could do the same in return.

Crusades are so previous turn of the millenium.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by SaburoS
Blaming the whole of one group is kind of well...prejudicial.
Kind of like blaming all Christians as murderers cause a fraction get convicted of killing abortion doctors.

 

There you go. Stop there and I think you've almost got it.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Arlo
It's not nearly as laughable as the crusade against the word "God" theatening atheistic belief.

...and that's not nearly as laughable as those that keep trying to paint Atheism as a religion.

Again, how does an Atheist practice his Atheism?

The word God doesn't threaten Atheistic belief. It is the perceived persecution of those Atheists by the religious majority some Atheists worry about. Having a Government backing a religious organization where Atheists are said to be the "enemy" is actually the scary part.
Separation of Church and State? Oh yeah.
BTW, 2 things:
1) Atheists don't look at people of religion as the "enemy". We tend to worry from those that try to erode our rights or try to harm us.
2) I would personally join the religious side in protest if my government tried to interject evolution as a forced curriculum into Sunday School, private religious schools, or places or worship.

[SaburoS]

Arlo,
Here's a scenario for you:

Judges are now allowed to erect any religious staues/monuments they wish.
Now they get this idea that Christianity in the courtroom is a good idea.

So now I appear before that same judge. He finds out that I am an Atheist.
He rules against me unfairly.

That is one scary scenario.