Israel: How to get rid of Palestinians.

[miko2d]

Originally posted by mrfish:
thanks for publishing this staga - israel's sins don't get much airtime.

maybe if they did the veil of wordsmithing and spin would start to lift from the eyes of the public and they'd see the situation clearly.

 And you are a prime example of such wordsmithing, mrfish.
 There is no argument about Israel's sins. I've just listed the real ones and the causes (not to confuse with justifications) for them in this same trend.

 But your reaction to the starvation issue just shows how one-sided you are and blind to reason and common sence.

 How about if I try to read the same news content in from a different perspective:
Because continuous 50-year long conflict escalated into almost a full-blown war over the last few weeks, Israel was unable to continue providing employment and supply to palestinians of West Bank and Gaza Strip as it did before.
 Despite being at war and completely controlling outside borders of West Bank and Gaza Strip Israel allows international organisations to provide thousands of tons of supplies to their enemies.

 Doesn't sound so evil now. Quite civilised and benevolent in fact.
 Do you remember many cases when one side allowed the other one to be supplied during the war? When Germany was starving in 44, did allies allow any food convoys in through territories they controlled? Did german submarines abstain from torpedoing food transports on the way to Britain or let food into Warsaw getto during the uprising?

 Picking on Israel for not feeding and employing palestinians while Israeli's tanks and helicopters are openly bombing palestinian territories is like blaming brits for inconsiderately depriving germans of sleep while they bombed them at night.

 It's not like US is willing to house, feed and employ the same palestinians and we are not even at war with them. Same goes for european and even arab countries.

 miko

[Eagler]

in a way the entire thing reminds me of some the african americans here in the states squeaking about their great great grandparents being slaves....

at some point you have to let go of the past and look towards the future. take a course of action which most benefits your generation and generations to come. let go of old hate...

[miko2d]

Originally posted by Eagler:
in a way the entire thing reminds me of some the african americans here in the states squeaking about their great great grandparents being slaves....

 At that they are not squeaking about those who made them slaves and sold them. They also have no desire to go back to where they were forcefully removed from. And it is not possible and never will be to prove to them they are not discriminated against in any given case (short of using mind-reading machine on the supposed perpetrator).

 Saw on the news recently how some think that they are suppressing the racial memory and need to relieve the experience "in order to start healing process". For that they display extremely graphical scenes of slavery, slave ships and abuse to children and adults who had as little knowlege and relation to slavery as any, say, russian guy (slavery abolished in 1861). After such vivid lesson of history of hate they probably say - "now you know how evil white people were, so you can go on and forgive them".

 miko

[mrfish]

Originally posted by miko2d:


 

 How about if I try to read the same news content in from a different perspective:
Because continuous 50-year long conflict escalated into almost a full-blown war over the last few weeks, Israel was unable to continue providing employment and supply to palestinians of West Bank and Gaza Strip as it did before.
 

 

and now let me spray a little truth on that.

it is ironic that you call me blind, yet you state it to be a 50 year conflict lol - pretty convenient to start the timeline there eh, miko!  

it is a 50 year struggle against occupation of palestinian land by foreign zionists against their will.

in law there is a thing called the 'but-for test'. it's a really concept and very effective:

example:" 'but for' the chair being broken the man wouldn't have hit the floor and broke his back"

example: "'but for' the brakes being faulty the car wouldn't have crashed."

example: "'but for' the medicine being tainted, the man wouldn't have contracted a disease."

it is a simple way to establish liability(def:whose fault it is...) so here's another good example:

"but for" the zionist israelis occupying the palestinians land against their will, and with the support of huge foreign powers there would be no palestinian uprising.

would the palestinians have gone to other countries to hunt down jews and kill them? be real. the only problem is that they are on their land! there is nothig for themn to 'get over' - that idea is just plebian.

they have been resisting since day one and should resist if they are any men at all. i wouldn't stop resisting ever if someone stole my land in america and i can't blame them if they do. i wouldn't just 'get over it' and submit.

does that make sense? is that simple enough? if the israeli's hadn't invaded, they wouldn't be dealing with a resistance movement. they are reaping their bad karma.

and ps - you, having lived in israel, and being associated with the zionist movement,  should state and reveal your bias before championing their cause as an 'objective' poster.  


it is in no way similar to the 'african american' thing - i don't know where you dug that up, but 'apples and oranges' is about all the time i'll waste on that jab.

[Vulcan]

But for religion...

[Staga]

Looks like Israel already re-invented ghettoes.
I wonder if they take next step in that road ?

[Glasses]

Simple Hypocresy. Enough said.

[Lance]

Dammit, Vulvan made a funny!

[Red Ant]

Originally posted by mrfish:


and ps - you, having lived in israel, and being associated with the zionist movement,  should state and reveal your bias before championing their cause as an 'objective' poster.  

Careful, your own bias is showing  

Any time anyone trots out the "zionist movement" i have a pretty good idea of where they're coming from  

[mrfish]

well what do you call the movement that pushed aside the palestinians? what is the new pc word - enlighten me

[batdog]

Zionist movement? Good lord..where are the Swastika's? Get real... the Jews where pretty much a scattered culture. After the holcaust the US and Britian had a serious guilt trip about allowing that to happen thus they took what wasnt considered to be a nation and "gave" the land to them. The Isrealies took it an ran with the Holocaust fresh in thier heads. They have been assulted on all sides. They have been the focus of many attempted exterminations... now they have something called a home and I just dont see them walking away from it.

 Oh as far as land is concerned...show me a nation where people didnt kick somebody else out of thier way to get that land...

xBAT

 As far as Palastine is considered...why hasnt some Arab nation offered them a chunk of land... ?

xBAT

[Staga]

Batdog do you own any land ?

If you do what would you think if I give your land to the gipsies?

Nazies were killing them too but I haven't seen anyone offering land to them but guess I could give them YOUR land.

Why didn't U.S of A or Brits give them something they did own, like Nebraska or Birmingham ?

[batdog]

First and foremost the "land" that was given to the Isrealies wasnt settled. There where no cities...no government organization to speak of. I'm not saying what they did was right... driving the Indians here in the US wasnt RIGHT but it WAS done and the land isnt going to be GIVEN back. The Palastain people got screwed... it happens. They do have a chance to get land and a nation for themselves. There are those among them though that for thier own political agenda oppose this...


xbat

[mrfish]

Originally posted by batdog:
Zionist movement? Good lord..where are the Swastika's? Get real

sighhh......since you are the second winner to play the worn out, dog-eared nazi card at the use of the word 'zionist' (yawn...didn't see that coming   ), let me try to get you up to date on world history as a public service.

here is what a zionist is:

"According to the Zionist declarations, Zionism was indeed the return of the Western assimilated Jews to Judaism and through Zionism some kind of reunification between Western and Eastern Jews took place after centuries of separation."

that reunification is taking place in israel and has been for over 100 years, the largest wave of resettlement being just after wwii - it was the actual name of the actual movement designed to get actual jews back to the 'homeland' to form a common state in israel after the diaspora.

here is what those nasty anti-semitic nazis at the jewish virtual library say about <cue dramatc music here> zionismmmmmmmmmmmm......

"Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained."

wow! how hateful! those nazi grumble grumble...oh wait - those guys are jews huh????

YOU - are trying to paint me as this guy:

" the zionist jews and the aliens and freemasons are trying to take over by controling our water supply dag nabbit!"

- the above referenced goof thinks the jews are trying to set up a homeland in america and thus his inappropriate use of zionist.

<clears throat.....>I AM USING ZIONIST IN REFERENCE TO JEWS FORMING A HOMELAND IN ISRAEL!!!!!

my goodness people.....here, read a little before you cast anymore unnecessary slings:
 http://www.2cc.com/azmchi/
 http://www.iea.org.il/blueprint/page030.htm
 http://codoh.com/zionweb/ziondark/zionsym2.html
 http://hermes.spaceports.com/~mrcash/1896-1916%20-%20Zionist%20movement.htm
 http://www.jazo.org.il/wlzm/default.htm


these are links from both pro and anti- and only barely scratch the surface of the various interpretations of zionist belief. the spectrum of beliefs is actually quite extreme within the zionist movement. hopefully it'll give you a hint of a clue at least instead of the sad place you are now.

fyi - when used in the context of the middle east it's pretty darn specific - k?
--------------

"As far as Palastine[sic] is considered...why hasnt some Arab nation offered them a chunk of land... ? "

"Oh as far as land is concerned...show me a nation where people didnt kick somebody else out of thier way to get that land..."

- wow! lol...what can i say about those gems. if someone needs an argument to see why that is absurd logic then......errrr may i suggest night school?


   

[ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: mrfish ]

[batdog]

Okay..perhaps my "label" on you was incorrect. I'll stand by the other statement. The FACT is simple... the jewish people have that land. They are THERE...they are a government that is accepted by the majority of the world. You can squeak, whine, moan or whatever about how they "stole" the land but it wont mean squat. They are NOT going to move, or leave.

 The people of Palastine would be best served by going to the table and working a deal. They would be best served not allowing radicals to dictate a future that could hold a nation for them. GET THE DAMN LAND... then go from there. They will at least have something to fall back on... and it will be alot damn better than what they have now..ie NOTHING.  

 As far as my logic concerning how nations are formed on the bones of other cultures... get real. I'm sorry but history is full of this. The analogy is correct... a nomadic, unorganised people where driven from thier claimed land vie a more powerful force.

xBAT

xBAT