Author Topic: Time to Un-Perk the Hogs? (Read 4859 times)

bozon · « **Reply #30 on:** May 19, 2006, 12:44:22 AM »

The only reason not to unperk the chog is that it will eliminate the other F4u1s from the areana. Of course, that is a problem only if you are bothered by an historically insignificant model representing the corsairs in the MA. In practice, the perk cost is so low and options for spending perks so limited, that it is as good as free already.

The problem I have with the F4u-4 is made of two:
First is similar to the above. Unperk it and F4u-1A/D will have no existance in the areana. The corsairs will be represented by their two most insignificant models - btw, I'd like to see the P47N perked for the same reason.

The second reason is selfish. The last thing I want is another, even faster free plane in the areana. Even as it is now, if one likes to fly early or mid-war planes he's destined to spend his time chasing planes 20-40 mph faster than his ride, or having to climb high enough to get one diving attack opertunity before his target runs away. I don't mind people pwning me in their spit 16s becuase they fight and have harder time running away (though it is still faster than anything I like to fly). One La7 in the areana is enough - it being russian keeps its numbers down. Make an american F4U-4 free and instead of F4u-1s that fight, I'd get another no fun, running opponent. That is what the P51 is there for.

Bozon

Bruno · « **Reply #31 on:** May 19, 2006, 12:46:14 AM »

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You can have lethal-lasers-of-doom and they'll still do you no good unless you hit something with 'em.

Its easier to land hits with Hizookas, especially at range and this is an advantage in the Ho which is what DoK was talking about.

.50s are not 'anemic'. They out range any gun in the game. When landing this at convergence they work fine. The choice of Ami 'iron' should be .50 cal after all that's what they used. There were only a couple of hundred Chogs in service before the war ended and saw limited combat at Okinawa.

As for killing tanks, Hizookas are just BS. They didn't carry AP... In Ah they are a hybrid round. With high velocity and mix of AP / HE they are the deadliest cannon in AH. In rl they RAF said the lethality of the Hizooka and the M'geschoss MGFF were about the same. In AH the MGFF is the weakest of the 2cm cannon. Even weaker then the 2cm Type 99 MK1. This is because the AH DM rewards a greater proportion of damage due to impact velocity and less so on HE. IIRC there no M'geschoss rounds modeled in AH and lethality is averaged out over the cannon load. If anything both .50 cals and Hizookas out perform all other MG and cannon types because of this. Flying head long into a wall of Hizookas if far more risky then flying into a wall of Type 99 MK II, especially at range.

Saxman · « **Reply #32 on:** May 19, 2006, 01:07:19 AM »

I never run in a 4-Hog. I can't use her as described by WW, either.

Guaranteed, though, unperk the 4-Hog and it sure as hell will shut up the "Perk the ElGay" whiners. Just not in the way you'd WANT it to.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #33 on:** May 19, 2006, 01:42:47 AM »

I can see the 4-Hog costing what a Ta-152 costs. It just doesn't have that huge a performance edge over non-perked planes.

All the other perked fighters are cannon monsters. Even the Totally Awful 152 is a beast in the guns department. You can't kill with a crossing shot or a HO in a 4-Hog like the other perked planes.

bkbandit · « **Reply #34 on:** May 19, 2006, 02:17:04 AM »

The reason the f4uc is perked is becuase of the cannons, but there are other planes running around with 4 cannons that arent perked.

When it comes to the 4 hog i really dont noe. I honestly like the d better then the 4, its very fast but i think the d hog handles a bit better. Its one of those planes that u have to now how to fly to land kills, like the mustang. Whether it stays perked or is free really doesnt matter to me, i wouldnt fly it anyway, if i want to go fast i take 51d.

Alot of people complain about the mustang because its fast, but these are the guys that fly turn fighters. He'll fly a zero and get mad at me because i dont want to turn fight him. ANd they the funny thing is when theres 3 on 1(the 1 being u) and the say u got no balls. Its like me calling the zero pilot a punk because he doesnt want to come to 25k to fight me. If u have a turn fighter chances are that 51 is faster and if u have a fast plane chances r that 51 can out turn u. The mustang isnt the only runner i have seen. Typo's run like crazy. U dont want to let him get away, get in somethin faster, i have had 109s 190s typos temps dive and run, all i do is switch out of the corsair and chase him.

When it comes to the USAF gun choice i like my 50s, but some hispanos wouldnt hurt. The coverages are very important with the .50s. Maybe if the upgraded the damage models the 50s would be a better weapon. I have killed p47s with the first burst of my 50s, i have seen documentarys with this thing absorbing tons of damage from german 109s. 50s are good when u got ur coverages right but u got ur fights when u have to put more lead then normal(when there liter aircrafts like the zero this becomes very annoying), i hate those when i put shells in the cockpit and he keeps going. But since everything i fly has .50s cals i pretty much learned to live with its advantages aswell as there flaws. In the end .50s are good, they have a high fire rate and great amount of ammo.

killnu · « **Reply #35 on:** May 19, 2006, 05:11:38 AM »

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The Niki has 2cm Type 99 MK IIs and they are no where near as lethal as hizookas.

ummm yea...ok. what, does it take one more to take wing off?

Ive landed 20+ in one sortie, no rearms in niki and Chog. Rtb'd with no ammo left in either.

If you hit with the niki's gunz, it goes down. I will agree the ballistics are not as good as the Hispanos, but as far as what i consider lethality, oh ya, they are just as lethal. IMHO

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #36 on:** May 19, 2006, 05:39:54 AM »

what Widewing said..........

I use to never take the -4 Hog, this tour started to fly it more ( mostly really )....

I still like all variants, mainly F4U-1 & F4U-1C but am falling in love more so with the F4U-4 these days...

never seen a C-Hog cost 5? mainyl see it cost 9 to 16 perk points............only if I lose it does it cost.....

the F4U-4 most times is costling 21 to 29 perk points......

I fly as knights.........

also, I like Bozon's assessment of the later variants should have a slight perkness so the other variants do not go unused and end up being Hangar Queens.........case in point all the P47N's we are starting to see and all the Spit16's you never hardly see a spitV/VIII/IX these days.......

I find the F4U-4 on par with the La7 for the most part, unless the La7 is just blowing through , the 4-Hog can maintain a chase and sometimes even close the gap depending on the La7 pilot's ability to maximize the planes top end speed........some people should read the article titled " The Chase " by Badboy at SimHQ........

Urchin · « **Reply #37 on:** May 19, 2006, 07:43:06 AM »

I'd say that the La-7 is probably as good as the F4U-4, or if not it is so close that it wouldn't matter anyway for most people. It used to be roughly equal to the Tempest (that may have changed, the FM has had a couple revisions since I played around with it).

The Spit 16 is as good or better in a fight than any of the perk planes, but it can't run away from the speed demons, so maybe it balances out.

I *still* don't see whats so great about the Niki. It used to be an awesome plane (back in AH 1). I'd have taken it over any Spit or the Ki-84 in AH1, but in AH2 it just feels fat and unresponsive. The Spits and Ki-84 feel a lot more nimble to me.

Kweassa · « **Reply #38 on:** May 19, 2006, 08:11:35 AM »

All late war fighters should be perked.
Either that, or all should be unperked.

Sure.

The F4U-4 is a great plane. It might even be the 'best' plane as Widewing puts it. But seriously now, how much of a performance margin does it have over its contemporary late-war fighters that is large enough to justify its current perk price, when all the monsters such as the 109K-4, 190D-9, P-51D, La-7 and etc. are not perked at all?

Compare the F6F-5 and the A6M5. Both are contemporary mid-war fighters. Aside from turn performance and sustained climb rate (perhaps acceleration too), the F6F-5 simply dominates the A6M5 in overall performance attributes that concerns aerial combat. It is faster, rolls better, dives better, tougher, better armament, better handling at high speeds etc etc etc etc.. It can tactically dominate the fight, with the only possible reason of being shot down coming from only the pilot himself.

So, would you say the difference between the La-7 and the F4U-4 is even larger than the A6M5 and the F4U-4? The 'superiority' of the F4U-4 over other late war fighters is clearly not something that justifies its current perk price. In terms of performance if the F4U-4 is perk material than so is the La-7, Typhoon IB('44), Fw190D-9, Bf109K-4, P-51D, P-47N, and etc etc.

However for some reason the 4hog stays perked, the same with the Spit14, which would be the Ta152 to the Fw190D-9. Who cares if the Spit14 outperforms the Spit16 at 25k? Who cares if the Ta152H-1 outperforms the Fw190D-9 at 35k? At the altitudes where it really matters in the MA both the Spit16 and the Fw190D-9 is much superior to the Spit14 and the Ta152H-1 - except for some reason the planes that perform better remain perked, and the planes that performs even worse are perked.

At least the Ta152H-1 and the F4U-1C has grounds to be perked in the fact that it was a rare fighter...(in which case so should the N1K be perked). Why's the Spit14 perked in the first place?

I say unperk the Spit14, Ta152H-1, and the F4U-1C, F4U-4.

UTSTAFF!!!

..either that, or slap a modest perk price on all the contemporary late-war fighters in the game that maintains comparable performance to the currently perked fighters, but for some reason remains unperked.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #39 on:** May 19, 2006, 01:19:28 PM »

I think lowering the cost of the 4-Hog to 5 or less makes sense. Even then, I'll wager you see more C-Hogs because the MA is all about HO'ing. But at least it'd be affordable for those who want to fly it. Spit14 is probably the same kind of deal - with the Spit16 in the MA now, I just can't see why the 14 is so expensive.

Making the 4-Hog free would more or less remove all the F4U-1's and P51's from common use in the MA.

The Ta152 is a completely separate debate because that plane sucks. Bring it down to 2 perks and I'll use it to hunt high-alt bombers (which is more or less a suicide mission anyway).

bkbandit · « **Reply #40 on:** May 19, 2006, 02:47:55 PM »

The spit16 is alot better then the other spits, that makes something like the spit 9 a rare site, but the p47n isnt much better then the d model. I fly the d over the n model. All the n model p47s are prob just newbies takeing the latest model. I dont fly the b model 51 but if im fighting one u still have a chance of seeing a b over a d model.

IF the f4uc is perked becuase of the rarity of the plane the nik should be perked also. The la7 i think was another plane that wasnt made in major numbers either(ill try to dig up the stats). The only difference between the c and d corsair is those guns. If the c hurr gets to have 4 cannons why cant i have them on the corsair. Hoing is something that people do without cannons or not, i seen f4fs try to ho, and win.

bozon · « **Reply #41 on:** May 19, 2006, 06:09:22 PM »

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Originally posted by bkbandit
If the c hurr gets to have 4 cannons why cant i have them on the corsair.

You already have them on the corsair at the low-low price of 4.99!
Even better - it's totaly free if you land it.

HTC is not likely (nor should imo) mess with the MA. It is a relic. Clearly, Combat Tour is what HTC consider as the future of the game and all development efforts are directed in that direction. Messing with the MA will only distract them and they'll have to experiment with the setting and deal with the endless whining that will result - perhaps loosing a few subscribers in the process.

Maybe, if CT is a success, they will attempt this.

Bozon

Arcades057 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 19, 2006, 11:50:17 PM »

I thought the reason the TA and the Corsairs are perked is due to their limited numbers in the war?

bkbandit · « **Reply #43 on:** May 20, 2006, 12:18:32 AM »

if the did it according to production numbers the f4u4 would be unperked, there were only like 200 or so more f4u1ds then f4u4

LEDPIG · « **Reply #44 on:** May 20, 2006, 10:19:34 AM »

I still don't get why the Hog's are perked and the Spit 16 and La's are unperked. Seems to me that what was happening with the Hog's being unperked is now happening with the Spit's La's Hurr blah blah. Everytime you take off that's all you see. It's not uncommon to be in a furball and see 15 enemy spitfires with 1 or 2 people flying something diferrent, i mean come on. Afterwhile it's going to be just a Spitfire simulator around here.