Author Topic: Time to Un-Perk the Hogs? (Read 5369 times)

bkbandit · « **Reply #45 on:** May 31, 2006, 09:27:19 PM »

I got back into m/a last week(final out of that h2h crap) and its retarded. I come to a field to drop some bombs and make a quick rocket run(in a f4ud) and i get there drop real quick so i can get some air to air going... and the con ids show up its just spit16 spit16 spit16 spit16. Give me a break. And if it aint a spit 16 its a la7. Its just makeing the game suck. Then everytime somebdoy lands kills 60% of the time its la7 and spit16. Rename it spit16 vs la7. Then if the la7 cant ho u r turn better he will runaway(if hes outnumbered i dont care, but they do this when its one on one). Its getting out of hand. I saw a p40 the other day and though i was seeing things. The way things r goin aces high will have maybe 8 planes that people take out and the rest will be hanger queens(niki,la7,spit16,typo,110, and asorted bombers)

There was a different post awhile back, i forgot how started it but he had a really good idea. He said to perk all of the later perk rides. This would get all of those hanger queens out and into the action. PLane like the razor back canopy p47 will be flying. The m/a needs more balance, its now fun when its 6 la7s a spit16 and maybe a typo and 109. Either that or unperk everthing but the jets. I mesed around with the la7 offline and the thing can get to 400mph at 4k! and they cant let me have a f4u4(it doesnt have cannons) for free. It isnt the point about sending a couple of points, its just i shouldnt have to pay when the la7 is free.

Im sorry if im not leting this arguement die its just killing the fun factor of the game when i see the same fighter over and over.

Lusche · « **Reply #46 on:** May 31, 2006, 10:41:56 PM »

Hello bkbandit,
While Spit 16 and La7 are without doubt the both most used types in game and can give you some frustration at times, they are not nearly as dominant nor numerous as you may believe right now. No way that 60% of all landed kills shown are from that planes alone. I see a lot P38´s, F4Us, C205, Bf 109 and many more planes landing kills. But as that is of course a subjective view, I just looked up the stats yesterday.
(There is no pure "Usage" stat, but if you add kills & deaths for a plane, you get quite a expressive number number):

1. Spit16: 8%
2. La7: 7.1%
3. N1K2 6.7%
4. P51D 5.3%
5. Bf110G 4%
6. Typhoon 3.7%
7. HurriIIC 3.4%
(...)
20. C205 1.9%
(...)
30. Bf109K 1.1%

The top 10 Airplanes have 47% kills&deaths combined,
the top 20 68% total, and even ranks 41-60 have about 22% kills & deaths (much more than I expected)

(If any one is interested, I could post a little chart)

And even more important is IMHO the K/D rate. The Spit 16 has a k/d of 1.07, that´s absolute unimpressive! F4U4 has about 2.6, Ki-84 about 1.6, 109K 1.5 and even the C205 has 1.33 and the FM2 1.05%. The Spit 16 is on K/D rank 29, La7 rank 19!

So while the most used planes, La7 & Spit 16 are not as dominant or deadly as we all (including myself) may sometimes tend to believe...

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #47 on:** May 31, 2006, 10:55:22 PM »

The Spit16 and La7 aren't as statistically dominant because you have so many idiots flying them.

As for valid comparisons of the F4U-4 try this one.

Saxman · « **Reply #48 on:** June 01, 2006, 12:45:25 AM »

And yet even WITH those charts we'll still have the "4-Hog ain't so uber!" nonbelievers coming in.

I think the lethality chart is a bit deceiving relying solely on hitting power alone, tho. The Ma Deuce is as near to point-and-click shooting as you can get in here so getting fire on target is a lot easier than with the ballistics of the ElGay's cannon, and under convergence the .50 cal is just plain nasty (granted not so effective against Buffs).

ghi · « **Reply #49 on:** June 01, 2006, 12:59:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
The F4U-4 is the best prop fighting in AH and you want it unperked?

Maybe was in real world, but not in the "reality" and needs of the game
not all the players play for fights/score and skils, and imop is not eficient for base defence/goon hunting/, if i would have the F4U-4 unperked next to La7, i would chose the La7.
90%+, of the fights in MA are under, or end up under 10k, and La7 is faster, accelerates better, rear visibility is better in la7, i would not trade 3x20mm shvaks, for 6 x .50cal,

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #50 on:** June 01, 2006, 01:09:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Saxman
And yet even WITH those charts we'll still have the "4-Hog ain't so uber!" nonbelievers coming in.

Well it's uber, but how is it so expensive compared to the other three planes compared which aren't even perked?

Given how things happen in the MA, not having cannons is a significant handicap. The M2's ballistics are great, but you still need a long burst into one place to kill; cannons just need a couple rounds to hit anywhere.

Karnak · « **Reply #51 on:** June 01, 2006, 01:20:53 AM »

I consider the F4U-4 to be the best all round piston fighter of WWII, and I think it is in AH as well. Widewing says it far better than I can. The thing is a monster.

Now, I could see an argument for perking the Spitfire Mk XVI and unperking the Spitfire Mk XIV, but I think that is fine as it is now.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #52 on:** June 01, 2006, 02:33:04 AM »

Perk anything with more then 2 cannons

With all the HO shooters now, it gets tough as the Hurri IIc drivers do it, the LA7 guys, the C Hogs, the Tiffies, even the Temps.

Misjudge the merge even a tad and one hit you are down in particular in a 38.

Of my 104 deaths this tour (yeah I suck, but that's beside the point), most fall to those cannon birds.

11 to Spit XVIs although I've killed 25 of them so I think that has more to do with sheer numbers, followed by 10 to LA7s, 9 to Hurri IIcs, 5 to C Hogs and 5 to N1Ks.

bkbandit · « **Reply #53 on:** June 01, 2006, 03:15:09 AM »

Lusche thanks for the stats. They arent dominate in the kill/death but why do i see them in bunches. I dont remeber the last time i seen a zero. Maybe its the side of the map i fight on but dam. The guy that fly the spit16s and la7s are the sucide guys, the run in get one guy and get banged by 3 other fighters. Spit16 is the plane that i bet is most vulched in the game. Last nite there where 4 5 guys that keep tryin to up from a base we were hitting, i was crusin 5k and watching them just get slamed by all the other bishops. It must have been 5 minutes till we destroyed the hangers and stoped them. If it wasnt for that spit 16 would be the must dominant by far. Dokgonzo got it right, alot of idiots fly them. The plane really has no real weakness, other then the duriability and the fact that alot of "simple" people fly it. SOme guys say "let the new guys have a chance to learn", they wont learn nothin in spit 16. The la7 is just a ho machine and the first guy to run, if i cant say nothin else about the spit16 at least it stays to fight u.

I really dont see why the f4u4 is considered uber. Why because it can chase these runing la7s and typos. Yes its faster, it accel rates better, climbs faster, but thats it. It still got 6 50s. The 6 50s arent a bad gun package, there really good but not point and click. When u look at the gun package as a whole, ammunation wise and ballistic then in my opinion there the best(unless u got the 4 hispanos on the corsair c with all that ammo). GHI spelled it out for us, f4u4 was the best in the real world not in the virtual world of aces high. 9 out of 10 guys will do just what ghi said.

Perk anything with more then 2 cannons, sounds good. BUt then those cannon guy will either move to 6 50s are want them perked. Just perk everything but the early warbirds. I want to see how lang those suicide spits will last.

Lusche · « **Reply #54 on:** June 01, 2006, 04:05:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bkbandit
Maybe its the side of the map i fight on but dam.

Ah yes, good point! In some battles they are much more prevalent than in others, especially if one side gets cornered and is fighting a desperate defensive battle, the number of Lalas in air rises dramatically. And I have to confess that I will be one of them

And on that maps with larger distances between bases you will encounter less La7´s.
So your perception of "nuthin but Spits & La´s" may have been right for that battles you fought..

Quote

Originally posted by bkbandit
SOme guys say "let the new guys have a chance to learn", they wont learn nothin in spit 16. The la7 is just a ho machine and the first guy to run, if i cant say nothin else about the spit16 at least it stays to fight u..

On that issue, I belong to another school of thought. If you would put all newbs in that "crappy" early-war rides competing with Mustangs,Spits,Tempests, Doras & Franks, most of them wouldn´t learn anything at all, because they would have been shot even faster than they are now. People are not able to cope with an unlimited level of frustration, they´ve got to have some success better sooner than later to stay motivated. And that is easier to achive in planes like Spit 8, 16 or maybe La5/7. If they are willing to learn, they will learn even in dweebmachines, and if not, a P40 wouldn´t help them though

This game is hard enbough to master as is for a newb.

I started my AH life about 6 months ago, and for the first few tours I flew La7 most of the time. I was thankful for that extra speed & power and easy handling that made it possible that not every wrong move ended with a flaming death. As my skill was improving, I took other planes more and more often into the skies. Today only about 10% of my kills are in a Lala as I work my way from top to bottom of the planeset. I think in 3 years I´ll be able to fly SpitI´s with some degree of success

Kazaa · « **Reply #55 on:** June 01, 2006, 06:25:09 AM »

Take the C off, leave the 4 on !

bkbandit · « **Reply #56 on:** June 01, 2006, 08:47:24 AM »

to learn with ok, but they wont leave it. I was forced to leave it, i kept breaking the plane on high h turns. But when i compare spit 16 to other fighters it does things that just kept u flyin it. It rolls like crazy climbs great accels great. Its only weakness is its duriability and maybe the gun package. Whats wrong with learning in a spitfire 9 or 5. I never said put all the newbie but the dweebis that cant land kills with out la7 or spit16 will be out of luck, and plus t/a is there for a reason. ANd learning on somethin like a f6f isnt terrible. HTC really needs to rethink the perk planes list.

I dont see why leaving the 4 on makes a difference. It just accels better and is faster, thats it. I dont see why people say its a monster. I still think its because then people cant runaway with typos and la7.

NOt only when iam attack a base do i see them, i see them all other.On the map now its preetyy big and i still see alot of them. I just really want to see a wider range of fighters. All u need to do to la7 is took of that third canno. I read somewhere that the three cannon la7 was very rare. In the 200s. With a 2 cannon la7 it will become "less" popular. The spit16 is just somthin else. The way it moves feels more like a f16. Perk it like they perk the f4u4. All the spit 16 guys arent left in the cold, they have many other models to get into. Just like if the perk the d mustang those guys will pick up the b model, just like if they perk my d corsair(and i couldnt afford the d) i would get into the f4u1. There not bad planes(i have landed kills in the f4u1, not vulches either).

Karnak · « **Reply #57 on:** June 01, 2006, 10:01:33 AM »

What then? Perk the Spit VIII as it surges in use?

At that point those of us who are actually Spitfire fans get left out in the cold.

For me, I prefer the Spitfire Mk VIII to the Spitfire Mk XVI, so as I contemplate returning to AH I know that a perked Spitfire Mk XVI wouldn't affect me until the whiners got my Spitfire Mk VIII perked as well.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #58 on:** June 01, 2006, 11:23:41 AM »

Going cannon count alone won't make it - the 190A-5 shouldn't be perked, nor should the 190A-8 ... they are so vulnerable in the MA if the pilot makes any mistakes and gets slow. Not so with the other multi-cannon planes mentioned.

But the issue at hand in this thread was the F4U-1C and F4U-4. The -1C needs to stay perked because we already know what happens when it's unperked. And that was before the Hawg got Der Uberflappen.

The 4-Hog, though, has no real performance edge over the 3 top late war rides, other than full-flap turn rate. Which is compensated for with lower lethality. A lot lower. If its perked for the reason of being a rare bird, fine, perk it like a Ta-152. I'd pay 5 perks for a nice ride that's gonna get HO'd out of the sky anyway because it has no cannons.

But throwing away a 20+ perk ride that way when I'm not getting anything for the perks that a La-7 or Spit-16 or D-9 doesn't also give me don't make sense.

bkbandit · « **Reply #59 on:** June 01, 2006, 11:48:01 AM »

Karnak i see where ur coming from but u cant compare a spit 16 and a 8. Spit 16 really puts the others to shame, i have flown both. The spit 16 has crazy agility, the others cant stack up. The other spits r safe, there no way u guys will get left in the cold with all those models. With the spit16 of the market u will get more variety in spits not just 16s. I only seen 5 spits in the last week that werent 16s. And i see alot of spits. I flew spits agaisnt 109 and i can apperciate them(im not a spit hater) but c'mon. The spit16 is kinda killin the rep of the spitfire period, without that 16 spit guys will get more respect, i mean... i heard a guy say im a ace spitfire pilot and i laughed, i said wat model and he said 16, and i told him thats why i laughed. Im a corsair fan but if every other plane is a corsair c hoin everyone i wouldnt fight perking it, i would have to let it go and either pay the perk or fly d model. Doesnt bother me, i can earn perk points.

I just got out of the m/a arena and that c hog is a brute. I undertand why its perked but y arent the other 4 cannon planes perked. I mashed a nik 51 and lacs like they were paper. Thats not fair. NIK typo hurriC(if i missed a 4 cannon plane add it) should be perked. THese guys r the biggest ho bags in the game. AS soon as i see them comin for a head on i move but alot of guys go for it and lose, and we are giving a guy with no skill a good score(that and vulching, another post). I dont want them to unperk c hog, i want them to perk the other 4 cannon planes and cut one canon off the la7. Hurri guys will fly the hurri one(or a non spit) i mean give me a break i have seen huuriCs turn inside zeros and it has 4 cannons ontop of that, typo guys can do the same thing the hurri guys do or they can fly mustangs, nik guys can move to a ki84,zero or the hanger queen ki61(i noe its 60 somethin). THe la7 with 2 cannons or perked wont be bad they got la5.

I understand some people might be left in the cold but i really dont c it that way. Theres alot more planes out there. IF they perked all the hogs and 51 i would just rock a f6f, i have flown them with alot of success before, yes it isnt my first choice but i can adjust and learn(im still learning). THe reason i changed out of the spit 16 a couple of months ago was partly due to the dweeb 16 remark(in h2h its 8 guys, tempers r all over) and i started to break the plane with high g turns. I mean i would cut hard and would have his six but both wings would fall off. YEa the corsair doesnt move like it but i feel it has a better gun package(compared to chog theres no contest) it takes all the g's i through at it, it carrys alot of ord and ammo, its faster, better in the dive and its does pretty well on a full tank of gas. These guys that r "left out in the cold" need to learn another plane or stop playing simple.