Author Topic: Time to Un-Perk the Hogs? (Read 5520 times)

Grits · « **Reply #75 on:** June 02, 2006, 12:18:52 AM »

Widewing is right, the -4 Hog is an outright monster. If you dont think so, you dont know how to use it. Its only real drawbacks are average guns and short fuel range.

bkbandit · « **Reply #76 on:** June 02, 2006, 01:30:48 AM »

Nice bronk:aok dont add anything to the thread, ur just wasteing ur time clickin this link.

Tryin to perk a base with a solo p47 and getting jumped is ur on fault. Im pretty sure thing was loaded to the max with fuel and ord. With that much wieght it feels like a truck. Even without the extra ord and fuel it still wont hang with a spit 16 with out alt and e.

Before the spit16 came out there where other spits in the air, now there mostly 16s. U used to see all the other models(i liked the 5). Production number dont matter, if it did f4u4 would be free. The spit16 and 9 arent the same, the spit has shorter wings and a different gun package,in r hanger there is spit16 and spit 9 not no spit LF.IX. Its just very gay when i up and there 10 spit16s. GUys that fly spit 16 laught about it, that the map is cluttered with them.

c205 is a solid plane but it isnt a simple point and click plane. If it went by production numbered this would be perked. BUt there where more f4ucs then c205s, they perk the f4uc because it was ruining the m/a, the spit16 and la7 are doin the same. I have upped been in all spit rooms in h2h and the spit16 is dominate. A spit 8 9 or 5 is a great plane when stacked up against "other" planes but it cant mes with the spit 16.

U guys attack like a 10 15 point perk is so much. I take out a corsair c i got mind, just have to be more care full so i dont lose it. And if i do there aint nothin wrong with the d or the hellcat.

Saxman · « **Reply #77 on:** June 02, 2006, 02:22:48 AM »

The big thing about the F4U-4 is that she does pretty much EVERYTHING well, and THAT'S what really makes her such a beast. It can soak up a ton of damage, and imo the Brownings are being WAY underestimated around here--except for the occaisonal rubber bullets night I rarely have trouble sawing off wings or other important bits with half-second bursts, (well, when I hit the target

) and with the previously mentioned good ballistics of the Ma Deuce getting any sort of sustained fire is made much easier. She already has all the good performance aspects of the early Corsairs (roll rate, excellent top speed at all altitudes, excellent high-speed maneuverability and pretty dang good in the mid to low-speed range with flaps out) and adds even better performance in the vertical and GREATLY improved acceleration (checking the comparisons, the 4-Hog is within 1-1.5 seconds of most of the top dragsters from the 0-250 range). She's just as stingy with her E as any other Hog (all of which will hold on to it relentlessly) and just like any other Hog can STILL shed it rapidly at will (is there any other fighter with high energy retention that can even DO that?!)

So what if this plane or that plane might have an edge in one category or another? The F4U-4 can just pull another trick out of her VERY full bag.

Karnak · « **Reply #78 on:** June 02, 2006, 02:28:55 AM »

bkbandit,

You did not understand what I said.

The Spitfire LF.Mk IXe and the Spitfire Mk XVI are the same airplane.

We have a Spitfire F.Mk IX in AH, not a Spitfire LF.Mk IX.

Clipped wings don't say anything as the wings could be clipped or unclipped as desired. I can find you photos of Spitfires with high altitude engines with clipped wings and photos of Spitfire LF.Mk VIIIs or Spitfire LF.Mk IXs with full span wings.

As a matter of fact, the Spitfire Mk VIII in AH is a Spitfire LF.Mk VIII with full span wings.

If you look at the performance diagrams, the reason the Spitfire Mk VIII and Spitfire Mk XVI are the same is because the Merlin 266 in the Spitfire Mk XVI is just an American built Merlin 66 like in the Spitifre LF.Mk VIII that we have.....or the Spitfire LF.Mk IX that we do not have.

The Spitfire LF.Mk IX entered service in March, 1943.

Oleg · « **Reply #79 on:** June 02, 2006, 02:59:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bkbandit
Before the spit16 came out there where other spits in the air, now there mostly 16s. U used to see all the other models(i liked the 5). Production number dont matter, if it did f4u4 would be free. The spit16 and 9 arent the same, the spit has shorter wings and a different gun package,in r hanger there is spit16 and spit 9 not no spit LF.IX. Its just very gay when i up and there 10 spit16s. GUys that fly spit 16 laught about it, that the map is cluttered with them.

I cannt see a point... You as to perk Spir16 or unperk F4U-4?

Quote

Originally posted by bkbandit
U guys attack like a 10 15 point perk is so much. I take out a corsair c i got mind, just have to be more care full so i dont lose it.

So, what a problem with F4U-4? It cost only ~15-20 perks and it not too much as you said.

Yes, Spit16 very good and easy plane, but it not near as capable as F4U-4. Even F4U-1D can easy match with spit16. And 6x0.50 are deadly. Corsairs are not so common in MA because they are not "easy planes", they requires skill to fight in it.

Kev367th · « **Reply #80 on:** June 02, 2006, 03:09:42 AM »

Its easy -

Take the 1942 Spit F IX -

Put a Merlin 66 in it = LF IXc
Put a Merlin 66 in it and add 50cals = LF IXe
Put an American built Merlin 66 (Merlin 266) in it and add 50 cals = LF XVI

Therefore LF IXc / LF IXe / LF XVI are all the same plane, of which over 4500 were built ( 3500+ LF IX's and 1054 XVI's )

From mid 1943 onwards almost every IX built was the LF IX.

The F IX (Merlin 61) and HF IX (Merlin 70) complete the Mk IX family, they had around 2100 models built.

Clipped wings mean nothing - This was done at a unit level (apart from XVI all delivered clipped), and you can find pics of an aircraft either clipped or with a regular wing depending on what it was being used for.

Another example is the Spit HF VII - All were originally fitted with the extended pointed tips, but by D-Day they had been replaced by regular tips as they were no longer needed for extremely hi-alt work.

HF, F ,LF - Refers to motor fitted, NOT wing tip type.

Just to really confuse you -
The Mk IX came BEFORE the Mk VIII.
Why? - VIII was in development when the FW190's arrived. So as a 'temporary' counter to them they put a Merlin 61 in a Mk V airframe and desginated it the F IX. The Mk VIII didn't arrive till around 12 months later.

bkbandit · « **Reply #81 on:** June 02, 2006, 03:18:39 AM »

Yes the f4u4 is the type of plane that propertly used is very strong. The spit16 is a easy plane and that is bad for alot of the new guys. Theres great pilots out there, off the top of my head theres a guy that flys 109s docuwe. He makes that 109 do amazing things. I love fighting him one on one. Those fights are like those old samurai sword fights. Start at 1k and work fight about to 20k or from 20k down. These r the fights that i play the game for. The corsair d can beat it u just cant get careless, i have to work harder. I really dont want this game to get corny, i want the level of competition to be high. I want to log on and noe im fightin with the best of the internet pilots. I never said unperk f4u4, but when the cannon planes are free and la7 and spit 16 are free it really isnt fair(i will spend the perk points, no 10 15 isnt alot but when i can get somethin almost as good for nothin i will take the freebie). This game isnt supposed to be easy.

Corsair 4 is a great plane but how many guys really now how to get everything out of it. 51d is the same. Its fast, has great views, solid gun package, solid turn rate, but alot of guys still dont noe how to get the full power out of the plane(i dont noe either). i bag sorties and i can protect bombers very well but i still need more time to get it down. F4u4 is the same kind of beast, u need to full understand her to make it a monster.

I really dont want this game to become lame. i really like this game. IF it aint this ill prob just wait for ps3 to get back on to internet gameing(this was my first internet game).

I dont see reengineing an older model counting as the same plane. Its like taking a 69 camaro and puting in the new 500 horse ls7 engine. The stock engine had 300 horse and the ls7 reengined camaro has 500. These arent the same cars. There the same body but are 2 different animals. Its like saying the p51 with the allison is the same as the p51 with the merlin.

Kev367th · « **Reply #82 on:** June 02, 2006, 03:33:55 AM »

Your misunderstanding -

LF IXc - Merlin 66 - Mid '43
LF IXe - Merlin 66 - June 44
LF XVI - U.S. built Merlin 66 - Oct 44

Total of 4500+ produced

Same plane, same engine. Only reason for XVI designation was to differentiate between different tools/spares required because of different measureing systems used between US / UK.

In fact LF IX and XVI rolled off the same production line side by side, all that decided if they were LF IX or XVI was where the motor was made.

Been saying for a while now it should be retagged the LF IXe, just to avoid these misunderstandings.
Would then also open up the possibility of adding .303 as an armament choice to have the LF IXc also.

Oleg · « **Reply #83 on:** June 02, 2006, 05:01:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bkbandit
I never said unperk f4u4, but when the cannon planes are free and la7 and spit 16 are free it really isnt fair(i will spend the perk points, no 10 15 isnt alot but when i can get somethin almost as good for nothin i will take the freebie). This game isnt supposed to be easy.

Weapon alone dont determines plane's cost. As well as rarity i believe. IL-2 or Hurr2 are HO monsters for example, you want to perk them too?
Game is supposed to be fun. If your fun is flying in easy-mode planes - you can do that, if you like challenge - you can fly other plane and so on. Asking to force others fly in difficult planes is not best way.

Back to spit16, it is good for noobs. Guys who said noobs dont learn anything while flying spit16 are plain wrong. If somebody want to learn for basic ACM he can do it in spit16 with great success, if he dont want to learn he would learn in any plane.
Flying spit16 force you to fight even if you in disadvantage, because you cannt just run like you can do in La7 or P-51D.
I really like to meet spit16s much more then La7s or ponys. And spit16s are only ~6% of all my kills in last month.

bkbandit · « **Reply #84 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:03:45 AM »

easy made will make this game suck. Its like playin halo and giveing all the dweebs rockets lauchers and the giving the hardcore guys manchine guns only. Guys will be blowing u up with themselves at close range all day long(the ho) and everytime u got a good position on the field u have 30 rockets comeing at u at once. No matter how good u are this will become old quick. No real gun fights, just u either sneakin up on them and balstin or dodgeing 20 rockets and gettin killed in the process.

This game isnt supposed to be easy, star fox is easy.

ANd i have seen more runners then that. The last time i seen a p51 run was because we shot down all his buys and he was the only one left(if u have 4 on 1 and the stang runs hes smart). La7s and typos are big time runners these days. ANd dont forget the yak, when things go bad(and u have nothin fast enuff to catch him) he breaks out. 190s r always one of the first to dive anyway and run when the fight turns. I dont mind this, if im in a pack of 3 and he sees that hes goin to get jumped let him run, it shows he has a brian in his head. It gets annoyin when its one on one and this happens. I see this as a unoffical win, hes running away. If i have somethin fast enuff to chase i go but if i cant owell.

Bronk · « **Reply #85 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:23:13 AM »

bkbandit when you learn how to read other peoples posts I'll add . But you just proved you don't with your latest.

HT could relabel the XVI to the LF IX. The only real diff is the XVI has two .50 cal , and the LF IX has four .303 cal.

Now try reading this slowly and think before you repost.
Also if HT was to perk the XVI ,you'd be here in less than a week wanting to perk the VIII.
Now I'll explain why . They have almost the same performance. So every XVI you see would be a VIII.
Is it starting to sink in yet.

WOW if Mr Mitchel only new how much of a monster he made.

Bronk

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #86 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:23:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bkbandit
... ANd dont forget the yak, when things go bad(and u have nothin fast enuff to catch him) he breaks out. 190s r always one of the first to dive anyway and run when the fight turns. ...

Yak's big weakness is its small ammo load, a lot of times you need to break off while flying it because you run out. Especially when it's one of "those nights" with the net.

190 should dive away when things go bad. They don't have the turn rate to work to any advantage at low speed. Dive away is what they did. If it's 190 v 190, that's different.

Lye-El · « **Reply #87 on:** June 02, 2006, 05:22:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk

Now I'll explain why . They have almost the same performance. So every XVI you see would be a VIII.
Is it starting to sink in yet.

Bronk

And you would probably see a lot more pilot wounds with the 4 .303s adding to the bullet stream.

People think the 16 is 8 versions better than an 8. The only real practical difference is 4 .303s vs. 2 .50s. Oh, and fuel load, it lasts longer in the 8.

Warspawn · « **Reply #88 on:** June 02, 2006, 08:27:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lye-El
The only real practical difference is 4 .303s vs. 2 .50s.

I have to say I'm going to have to disagree with this summation. I've flown both a bit in HTH, the MA and DA, and the 8 can't hover in the verticle like the 16 does. The e bleeds noticably more quickly in the VIII. Putting your nose down on the XVI and hitting wep is like strapping a rocket on; I've gotten into a mess and landed kills, then escaped in the 16, where I'd have been too slow with no where to go in the 8.

Fly ém both a few times back-to-back and see. I know on paper the stats look very similar, but they fly way way differently. I apologize in advance if my feelings are wrong about the two planes, but to me they're very different birds, and I have to change my maneuvers accordingly.

bkbandit · « **Reply #89 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:54:14 PM »

I have flown all the different models of spitfire, They have there differeneces but for the most part they are very similar, which isnt a bad thing. BUt the spit16 is a just better. Its way more agile and that wep powers it around turns. I have fought 16v5, 16v8, 16v9,etc. The spit allows u to be very careless and get kills. The biggest advantage u can have when fighting a spit16 is the quality of the spit16 pilot. ALot of them just go straight into a sustained turn until they come around on u or someone else comes into the picture. U can sit there and say look at this chart or that chart but it really doesnt represnet what this plane can do. I doubt that if 16 was perked 8 would become the standard spit. I used to see more spit 5s and seafires(not off cvs, smack in the middle of the map) before spit16 came out. When i started playing tthis game(about 2 weeks beofre spit16 came out) guys told me try one of the spits to learn. I uped off a carrier with it and just stook with the seafire until i tryed the spit16. I didnt noe much but i could get kills in it. It took longer to learn another plane once i flew the 16 and i dont really get out of it until i started brokeing the plane with g's. There is no almost the same, its the same or its not. Similar is not the same. THat spit 16 is better then the spit 8, that doesnt mean that spit 8 sucks, it just means that spit 16 has the edge.