Author Topic: So, whats your arsenal? (Read 3611 times)

Brenjen · « **Reply #105 on:** May 21, 2006, 04:03:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
pssstt... in a land filled with laws to protect us from ourselves... consider "I'll only give up some of my rights, they'll respect the rest of them if I give up just these few" the next time yah put on a helmet and fasten yer seatbelt.

That is the only law I break on purpose. The govt. of the United States or it's individual states; has no legal right to force someone to wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet for that matter if they are over the age of 18. If a childs parents are not going to force the under age child to buckle up, the govt. should I.M.O.

As adults our rights end where someone elses begin & I doubt anyone flew through a windsheild because of a lack of a seatbelt & killed someone else with their body. If the impact was that severe they'd probably die seatbelt or no seatbelt.

I think they should also get rid of the mandatory insurance law or force the insurance companies to write your next of kin a check at the end of your life for the full ammount you paid over the course of your life minus any funds they had to pay for you. For me, so far, they would owe a pretty penny since I have never had to use any form of insurance in my adult life.

Angus · « **Reply #106 on:** May 21, 2006, 04:11:14 PM »

Well, good you won't reply, hehe.
Ok, live with it, that in MY country we don't have the same guncrimes as in yours. Nor with crime generally.
So, forgive me as not seeing it as an improvement for the country to take a test and open the flood of smallarms, just because some wisearse sais that keeping them out is definately a lost battle.

On the flipside, when every idiot in the country can easily get a .45, and it's an established fact, then maybe it's futile to mess with regulations. If every thug in the country could be expected to pack a fast punch, maybe the good guys should to.

Some battles are lost, some are won, and ours has not been lost.

And for the kid. I'd rather be shot at with a home-made-from-a-tenyearold-wooden-bow-and-wooden-arrow (made those myself, and even got hit) than a .38 or .45. Or do you pick up kids and drop them off at the playground with a shotgun or a HP bow in their arms?
If you miss points, you miss them.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #107 on:** May 21, 2006, 06:08:46 PM »

what might be considered normal seen walking down a country lane in england may also get you arrested in a major city.

I'm sure its the same for america.

only thing is your 'countryside' and 'major citys' are up to 3000 miles apart.

an 8 year old kid walking down the road with a shotgun in an outback texan comunity might not even raise an eyebrow, the same aged kid in a city would result in an incident.

the over generalisations in these arguments are absurd.

Brenjen · « **Reply #108 on:** May 21, 2006, 06:38:54 PM »

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an 8 year old kid walking down the road with a shotgun in an outback texan comunity might not even raise an eyebrow, the same aged kid in a city would result in an incident

That's an over generalisation Bat

It depends entirely on the state & city & 8 year old, I don't know how it is in England but here in the U.S. a specific city might have a total ban on all guns in a state that has little or no gun control laws.

If you are living in America & don't want to be around guns, you can move to a place where they have very strict gun control laws.

Edbert1 · « **Reply #109 on:** May 21, 2006, 07:57:06 PM »

Angus, lets keep some things in perspective here.

What works on a small island sparsely populated with a homogenous ethnicity will not necessarilly work in a large nation with a high population made up of dozens of sub-cultures.

I do not know how many square miles Iceland is, but it would probably be a small state here. Also the polpulation of your entire country is less than just one of the suburbs of Dallas Texas.

Brenjen · « **Reply #110 on:** May 21, 2006, 08:48:51 PM »

There is no way to discuss anything when someone will leap from "a kid got killed" to "I'd rather he was killed with a bow" to "I'd rather be shot at by a home made bow"

moneyguy · « **Reply #111 on:** May 21, 2006, 09:56:29 PM »

got a Colt 1911-A1 that my grandfather used in WWII (still shoots straight too), also a Colt Goverment Model from the 90's, Glock 22 (.40 cal) that i use for work, .380 cal Kel-Tech for carry gun (i call it my noisey cricket), and a Winchester 30-30 (because its cool). anyone who wants to take em is gonna have a tough time trying.

Excel1 · « **Reply #112 on:** May 22, 2006, 03:25:26 AM »

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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
what might be considered normal seen walking down a country lane in england may also get you arrested in a major city.

If you carry a firearm in plain view on public property in NZ your asking for big trouble from the police. It don't matter whether it's a rural or urban setting or whether the gun is real or a toy or your a kid or an adult, the police will react the same way.They will be all over you like a rash. Mostly I blame this over reaction on the proliferation of cell phones in the hands of busy-body, ignorant, hysterical people, who think that a kid with an obvious toy gun; or people with real guns in legitimate and innocent situations are a threat to the public and should be reported to the police. And of course the cops can't pre- judge the true situation from a phone call, they have to respond to all firearms related complaints the same way, armed and with caution.

Excel

Angus · « **Reply #113 on:** May 22, 2006, 06:01:36 AM »

"Angus, lets keep some things in perspective here.

What works on a small island sparsely populated with a homogenous ethnicity will not necessarilly work in a large nation with a high population made up of dozens of sub-cultures."

Exactly. So therefore I don't agree with statements like
"Like I said, I'll say it again; enjoy it while you can. You're going back to "it works in my country" & I'm saying, that will change, it has in every other country & city that attempted it."

And drop an opinion like
"On the flipside, when every idiot in the country can easily get a .45, and it's an established fact, then maybe it's futile to mess with regulations. If every thug in the country could be expected to pack a fast punch, maybe the good guys should too."
(fixed one typo)

lazs2 · « **Reply #114 on:** May 22, 2006, 08:40:01 AM »

so angus... are you against homicide or just homicide caused by handguns? How bout self defense? for that or... only for that if handguns aren't used?

How do you know what your homicide rate would be if handguns were allowed?

In the states when we allow people to carry concealled handguns our homicide rate stays the same or drops. Do your knife weilding criminals only carry knives when they break into a place or do they use em on the street too? How do you defend against them on the street?

Where do you stop? well... in the U.S. we call "arms" small arms that don't have explosive charges except for propellant... That is good enough for me... Hand grenades? might be a little tough on the neighbors in a fire or rescue workers eh? Rockets... same deal. We even have restrictions on how much powder you can store without the a fire/explosion locker. sensible stuff.

Seems that if a crook wanted a short weapon that was concealable he would just buy an illegal handgun or.... like in most countries with handgun bans.... saw off a shotgun or rifle and have a much more deadly weapon than a handgun.

I have never understood the reasoning that said that "if we give up these rights they will stop there" or... "it is a good idea to disarm people for their own good" or... "if we take the guns from the people then crooks will behave better"

or... "my guns are ok but yours are evil and need to be banned"

lazs

Brenjen · « **Reply #115 on:** May 22, 2006, 08:44:50 AM »

Yeah Excel1 it works the same way here. I converse with a chick from N.Z., she wroks at the U.S. embassy there, great gal, likes to hog hunt with a bow...she's supposed to stop in Memphis on a business trip & I'm going to try to catch her. Should be interseting conversation.

Angus · « **Reply #116 on:** May 22, 2006, 08:54:13 AM »

I know this.
1. Our homicide rate is much much less than yours.
2. Capitale crime in general is also much less.
3. That applies to most of the western world.
4. Lots of conceilable arms in the bad hands make bad stuff much easier.
5. I can easily say I can protect my home without having a handgun.
6. You nead the same license for a bow as a hunting rifle up here.
7. If you're a true crook here, it's still quite hard to aquire a conceilable weapon. NB, same to the ammo, unless you just stick with .22!!!!
8. Better armed crooks increase homicide rate. Logical isn't it.
9. I still can enjoy hunting and pot shooting.
10. I gladly sacrifice my "right" to have a handgun for the freedom of knowing that almost no criminal at all has one.

BTW, the first armed bank robbery in this country was done by a U.S. citizen.

The last one was done with a Fireaxe. Rather unsuccessful.

lazs2 · « **Reply #117 on:** May 22, 2006, 09:14:08 AM »

angus... I bet I could go to your country and aquire an illegal handgun in a few weeks.

My guess is that you are young and in fairly good shape. The trap most young men fall for is that they don't see themselves as victims of violent crime because.... well... criminals are cowards for the most part... they go for weaker victims... old, infirm, women, children etc.. You have never felt the fear that these people have felt.

My parents used a handgun to stop what could have been a very bad situation by a very bad man who had no gun. Just not having a gun did not make him helpless against a 77 year old couple tho. He was quite willing to attack them both until the makarov came out.

Would he have attacked you? maybe... probly not... even if he did...he might not have prevailed. chances are tho... he woulda looked elsewhere.

I am saying that if you sold handguns at your local hardware store your homicide rate would not go up. You can't prove me wrong because no country that banned handguns has ever had a significant reduction in homicide.

In the U.S. the homicide rate for whites with firearms is quite low. socio economic factors come into play... handguns are not the cause. They can effect a cure tho to some small extent.

I say make handguns freely available to the law abiding and dramaticaly increase the penalties for gun crime... best of both worlds.. the unarmed crooks will be facing armed "victims".

lazs

Edbert1 · « **Reply #118 on:** May 22, 2006, 09:46:33 AM »

Angus, again...PERSPECTIVE!

The USA is ranked #6 in the world for total murders and Iceland is #61:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur

But that is out of perspective due to disparate populations. If viewed as per-capita the USA falls to #24 and Iceland climbs to 42:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_percap

But again that is out of perspective in my opinion, since our national statistics are built from the nation as a whole. there are places here where no sane person should tread, places where even the cops are afraid to go at night. They come in in the daylight and fill out the forms and attach toe-tags. But those areas are not representative of the whole country.

Take my home (Suburb of Austin Texas) for example. Per capita murder rate in the same year was one out of ~85,000 which puts us significantly ahead of Iceland. We also have a number of large (percentage wise) communities of illegal aliens and government housing projects. I can assure you that as a red-as-red-can-be county that the gun ownership per capita is higher here than most counties in the country too.

All I am saying is that when it comes to violent crime, there are a lot more things that influence it's commission than gun ownership.

Brenjen · « **Reply #119 on:** May 22, 2006, 09:55:47 AM »

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All I am saying is that when it comes to violent crime, there are a lot more things that influence it's commission than gun ownership.

I'd say that's an understatement edbert, lol

It all boils down to the old saying, "guns don't kill people, people kill people" A gun is only a tool & is as bad or good as the person using it.

Personally I'd rather be shot than bound at the hands and feet & shoved through a wood chipper...does that mean I would support banning wood chippers? Or locking away psychos that would like to shove me through one?